Chaos vs. Kyogre (Sonic vs. Pokemon)

 

“Into each life some rain must fall. Some days must be dark and dreary.” - Henry Wadsworth

Chaos, the God of Destruction.

Kyogre, the Creator of the Oceans.

Regarding the natural elements that create our world, the element of water is commonly seen as being synonymous with tranquility, calmness, and relaxation. However, it can turn a complete 180 and become violent, reckless, and even deadly with these two titans showing that one does not underestimate the power of H2O. With godly might and ancient jewels to greater their unrivaled power, who will sink? And who will swim victorious?

Before We Begin 

For Chaos, we will be looking over all of the Sonic mainline games, as well as other canonical Sonic media like the IDW comics and Netflix’s Sonic Prime. Other blatant non canon sources like Archie Sonic or Fleetway’s Sonic the Comic will be excluded. Additionally, the Sonic X anime will be accounted as supplementary canon.

For Kyogre, we will be doing a soft composite of Kyogre. While the mainline games will be the focus the anime and manga will be used as Kyogre stays very consistent throughout the different portrayals. Supplementary games like Pokémon Go will also be used as supporting material. Blatantly non canon material like Pokémon Mystery Dungeon will not be included.

Credits to some information used in the blog: Sonic Wiki Zone, TGTQVS’s Metal Sonic VS Bass, Chaos Respect Thread, VS Battles Wiki, Bulbapedia/Bulbagarden, Pokémon Database, Kyogre Respect Thread for the Anime, Extinction Event’s Spike VS Ethan.

Background

Chaos 

“You know nothing, fool! It's Chaos, the God of Destruction!”

Long ago, the Master Emerald was under attack. Targeted by the Knuckles Clan for its immense power to defeat their enemies, the Echidnas and their leader, Pachacamac, laid siege on the Altar of Emerald to claim their prizes. This foolish action was opposed by the native Chao, and the chieftain’s own daughter, a dedicated pacifist by the name of Tikal, who warned that taking the Emerald for their own devices was wrong and would surely backfire. But her wise words went unheeded, and the Knuckles Clan attacked, defeating the Chao with ease and trampling Tikal. But at that moment, their doom was sealed. For awakening to the commotion and seeing those it protected being beaten down, the Guardian of the Emerald rose up, and rage entered his heart. This aquatic titan of the Master Emerald was none other than Chaos, the destroyer of the Knuckles Clan.

Now fueled by bitterness and hate, Chaos transformed and slaughtered the Knuckles Clan with ease, wiping them out to the point of near-extinction they exist in today. But this vengeance did not quell the storm in its heart, and with all life in danger from this threat, Tikal had no choice but to oppose her friend. With the might of the Master Emerald, Tikal sealed herself and Chaos away, locked away from the world since then, ever at rest and dormant. But history has a habit of repeating itself, and the legend of Chaos and Tikal would come to the attention of one Doctor Eggman, who saw ways to use it to his advantage.

With the intelligence required to shatter the seal, Eggman broke Chaos out of its slumber, and the two began work on gathering the seven Chaos Emeralds so that Chaos might once again transform, Eggman using the creature as a weapon to conquer the world. Through some effort and opposition, Chaos ultimately succeeded in collecting all of the Emeralds, betrayed Eggman, and attacked Station Square, its rage fully unleashed upon the world once again. But this time, things were different.

While the rise of Chaos was known to all, Tikal had also made the trip out of her seal, and had been guiding a group of heroes along the way to this moment. At this point, she fully revealed her presence to the world’s greatest hero, Sonic the Hedgehog, seeking to seal Chaos away once again. But Sonic opted to battle Perfect Chaos directly, using the positive energy of the Chaos Emeralds to still the raging waters deep within the heart of Chaos once and for all. With the support of his friends, Sonic battled Perfect Chaos, and won. And ultimately, it worked.

Chaos survived the absolute thrashing Sonic gave him, but the fury deep inside was gone. Chaos returned to the peaceful, kind guardian of the Chao he was once long ago, now finally at peace with himself and also with Tikal. Their work done, Tikal and Chaos departed to lands unknown, seemingly the afterlife, where they continue to care for and guard the Chao and the land with their mystic might. Chaos and Tikal might be gone for now, but they could come back at any time, so let all those who seek evil upon the Chao or the land of the innocent beware. The bitterness in Chaos is long gone, and all who oppose the peace it once defended may find themselves face to face with the now righteous supreme guardian of the Emeralds once again.

Kyogre

“ *whale noises* ”

In the world of Pokemon, legends are many, and some happen to be saviors of the world while others are harbingers of death and apocalypse. From the masters of space and time, Palkia and Dialga, to the champions of truth and ideals, Reshiram and Zekrom, these Legendary Pokemon have the power to change the course of history and the world in drastic ways. Their appearance is an event that all should heed to, for the world is almost certain to witness history in some way, be it the cataclysm or salvation. Amongst these legends, perhaps some of the most famous are the Super-Ancient Pokemon.

These pokemon command a different part of the elemental spheres. Groudon holds control over the land, and its unmatched mastery over fire and lava can be used to expand the terrain with ease. The mightiest of the three, the sky dragon Rayquaza, is the peacekeeper of the trio and also the champion of the skies and atmosphere. The third member of the trio, the eternal rival of Groudon and the titan of tempests, savior of the seas, is the legendary pokemon that all know as Kyogre.

Kyogre’s history is one shrouded in mystery and myth, a living legend spoken of through tales and lore since time immemorial. What the records kept by the Draconid people do seem to make clear is that Groudon and Kyogre once engaged in prolonged combat, with their duel creating a vast number of natural disasters. This duel and the disasters that came from it forged the Hoenn Region in its wake, which is one of the many regions known to exist in the world of Pokemon today. But their duel did not stop there, and the land’s inhabitants were in danger from the relentless fury of these two clamoring titans of the weather.

Fortunately, help came from above in the form of the almighty Rayquaza, who managed to strike down both land and sea masters single handedly, bringing about peace in Hoenn for the first time and beginning a chain of events that would take place time and time again. Kyogre and Groudon would return many times throughout history, sometimes even enhanced by the Primal Energy that exists within Hoenn. But every time they would be returned to peace or slumber by Rayquaza, for which reason Hoenn, and the world at large, still exists today.

But defeat at the hands of the great Rayquaza is not all of Kyogre’s history, which is as vast and deep as the very seas it champions. It has been the cornerstone of operations for villainous teams like Team Aqua, or has been wielded by mighty champions such as Brendan or May. And while Kyogre’s appearance is often the beginning of the apocalypse, do not mistake it for a being of evil. Legend also speaks of the being as a savior, having once long ago saved many parts of the world that were tormented by intense drought and dryness, and it has also played a role in the defeat of a few villains in the world’s history. And when not in the vicinity of its hated rival Groudon, Kyogre can actually be rather peaceful, having passively interacted with various trainers multiple times in the past without incident. Ultimately, Kyogre’s role is that of the creator and master of the seas, forever locked in rivalry with Groudon for command of the world. But when Kyogre and Groudon are not bringing about the apocalypse with their feud until Rayquaza steps in, there is no telling what role Kyogre will play next in history, be it the bringer of Armageddon or salvation. Truly, Kyogre’s tale and role in the world is worthy of the title it holds as one of the Legends amongst all Pokemon.

Experience/Skill/IQ/Other

Chaos

Chaos is usually a passive being, but it has proven on a multitude of occasions to be a readily dangerous force in a fight of any kind. At its weakest form it was capable of soundly defeating Knuckles the Echidna, one of the most skilled fighters amongst Sonic and his friends, and it has also tussled with Sonic and his other allies on a few occasions in a variety of forms. Chaos is shown to be quite skilled in using each and every one of its various forms to great use, though obviously Chaos 0 is the one that it uses most of the time. As Perfect Chaos it was also capable of one-shotting Doctor Eggman’s ship with notable ease, and was able to battle against Super Sonic for a short amount of time.

Additionally, Chaos is blessed with a good amount of experience, having operated as a guardian of the emeralds in the ancient past. It single-handedly wiped out the vast majority of the Knuckles Clan without any help whatsoever, and was shown to still be just as prominent a threat in the far future with its battles against Sonic and company. Much of the time it has existed was spent sealed away in the Master Emerald or in the afterlife with Tikal, so not all of this time can be attributed to combat, but Chaos has still engaged in a good number of battles across time and space, even winning an impressive number of these encounters outright. It really shouldn’t be a surprise that Chaos is still remembered as one of the most capable forces that Sonic ever battled for this reason, and one that is still called back to time and time again over the generations.

Kyogre

As a primordial force battling time and time again since the days of the ancient past, it’s no shock to say that Kyogre is a frighteningly experienced force of nature. Many times it has engaged in prolonged combat for command of the world with its hated adversary Groudon, with these duels lasting an extensive period of time. Their first major duel lasted so long that it was able to bring about numerous natural disasters in early Hoenn, never ending until Rayquaza finally intervened and put the two down for a time. And these extensive duels with Groudon would continue to happen many times, even into the modern era. It is clear that Kyogre has eons of combat under its fins to draw from, and against an opponent of nightmarish potency at that.

Furthermore, Groudon is far from the only noteworthy force that Kyogre has clashed against. While it always ends in defeat, Kyogre has also been able to give the absurdly powerful Rayquaza a run for its money before, with its Primal form outright forcing Rayquaza to Mega Evolve in order to win on more than one occasion. Kyogre has also taken part in various other battles of great importance, such as Hoopa’s battle of Legendaries, destroying the Phantom’s ship, and in some continuities, even assisting in destroying the Delta Meteor with Rayquaza.

As far as skill is concerned, Pokemon in general tend to be quite skilled fighters, and Kyogre is no exception. Pokemon are known for their frequent battles and skills in combat, with entire leagues existing for the sport, and Kyogre is fully capable of effortlessly dismantling even the best trainers should they not come prepared. This is an impressive feat, given the amount of training and practice that trainers and their companions can put in with their Pokemon, honing their skills on the daily and in every single battle. As such, Kyogre is a fighter armed with ages of experience and numerous prolonged battles that have forged entire lands, and is fully capable of easily demolishing even the most skilled opponents.

Abilities

Chaos

Mutated Chao Physiology

As a mutated Chao, Chaos has a body (almost) entirely composed of water, which of course, means he’s immortal. He’s completely unaffected by bullets, can stretch his limbs for a direct attack, and shapeshift his body into just a little puddle. He’s also shown impressive regeneration, able to come back from previously mentioned puddles (backed up by Neo Metal Sonic, who could do the same with Chaos’ powers) and even regenerating from shattering after he was completely turned into ice to fight Knuckles, and doing it again when he was losing, as shown in Super Sonic’s story. He can glide and climb too for some reason.

Chaos Energy Absorption

“Specialty: Evolves with the power of Chaos Emeralds.”

Chaos’ main shtick throughout the Sonic Adventure game is his constant growth in power through consuming more and more Chaos Emeralds. Every time he absorbs a Chaos Emerald, he becomes more powerful, achieving several transformations until perfection.

Flight

Yuh he can fly.

Hydrokinesis

As a being composed of water, Chaos can control it to form water beams to shoot at his opponents, or just mess with it in general.

Body Puppetry

By entering someone’s body, Chaos can control them from inside, such was the case with Froggy, in which he used the body to snatch a Chaos Emerald.

Chaos Impact (the attack)

One of Chaos’ special attacks in SA2: Battle. It is performed by Chaos jumping into the air and striking the ground with a punch, triggering an earthquake that tremors around the area that affects opponents no matter where they are, causing them to trip and to be left dazed for some seconds. If performed while climbing to an opponent also climbing, Chaos will make opponents fall from the specific wall.

Chaos Bind

Another special from SA2: Battle. In this one, Chaos uses his hydrokinetic abilities to freeze the air around his opponent, making them unable to move or attack for 30 seconds.

Chaos Strike

Another special from SA2: Battle. Chaos Strike makes Chaos emit mysterious blue ripples to attack opponents. It targets opponents wherever they are, and when hit, they’ll disorientate opponents for a while by disturbing their movement.

Sonic Battle Abilities

In Sonic Battle, characters have a vast moveset to choose from in order to defeat opponents in combat. Chaos is one of the playable characters in the game, and as such, possesses many skills that aids him in battle.

Air C. Shot	“Chaos's air shot. It attacks by using the power of water spirits. It attacks by detaching and shooting part of its arm.” While Chaos is in the air, he lobs a water projectile and throws it at opponents, damaging them.
Air C. Splash	“Chaos's air trap. The traps shoots water when touched.” Whenever Chaos is in the air, he can dive down to the floor and create a puddle that shoots water when opponents come into contact with it.
C. Double Stab	“Chaos' heavy attack. Uses water elementals to attack opponents with a morphed hand.” Chaos plunges his arm on the ground, creating a water tentacle to strike opponents.
Chaos Combo	“Emerl's Knockout Technique awakened. This combo attack was derived from Chaos' techniques.” While not a move that Chaos does in game, it was derived from him. In this move, a flurry of attacks is done, ending the combination with a C. Double Stap.
Chaos Crush	“Chaos's ground power. It attacks by using the power of water spirits. It attack opponents by using the full power of its arm.” Chaos plunges his arm on the ground, creating a large water tentacle coming off from the ground and it swings around in a large arc. Essentially an improved version of C. Double Stab, since it creates three tentacles.
Chaos Dive	“Chaos's dashing skill. It liquefies its body as it moves.” Chaos liquifies himself into a little puddle, increasing his movement speed.
Chaos Dolphin	“Chaos's dash attack. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” From a dash, Chaos leaps into the air before diving back down, damaging opponents in the process.
Chaos Flight	“Chaos's air action. It flies even higher by using the power of air spirits.” Chaos calls upon the air spirits to stay in the air a little bit longer.
Chaos Heal	“Chaos' heal skill. Uses water elementals to heal damage.” Chaos calls upon the water spirits and heals himself. It also slowly restores the Ichikoro Gauge.
Chaos Guard	“Chaos' guard skill. Uses water elementals to block attacks.” Chaos creates a forcefield to block attacks. It comes with its perks, as if Chaos deflects an attack with it, half of the damage that would be hit on Chaos is transferred to the Ichikoro Gauge. However, if the Chaos Guard blocks a Special Move, the Ichikoro Gauge will be completely refilled. It can also block Ichikoro Gauge attacks.
Chaos Impact (the skill)	“Chaos's pursuit attack. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” Chaos performs a clap attack that, on contact, knocks opponents into the ground.
Chaos Rocket	“Chaos's air attack. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” While in the air, Chaos will clap his hands together and damage anyone caught in-between them.
Chaos Shot	“Chaos's ground shot. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” Chaos lobs a water projectile and uses it to throw at opponents.
Elastic Chaos	“Chaos's second attack. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” Chaos performs a downwards jabbing motion to attack opponents.
Upper Chaos	“Chaos's upper attack. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” Chaos plunges his arm into the ground, causing a fountain to spring up and knock opponents into the air.
Stretch Chaos	“Chaos's first attack. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” Chaos extends his arm forwards to lunge at enemies.
Flexible Chaos	“Chaos's third attack. It attacks by using the power of water spirits.” Chaos slams his arm down to the ground, dealing damage to enemies.
Ichikoro Gauge	The Ichikoro Gauge is the deadliest ability, available for each playable character in the game. “Ichikoro” is a japanese term for “beating somebody’s hands down”, and it’s quite literally what the move does. When your Ichikoro Gauge is filled, the user can one-hit KO the opponent. When hit or missed, the gauge will go back to zero. There are a few ways to recharge the Ichikoro Gauge, some of which have already been mentioned: blocking attacks/special attacks, healing through Heal skills, and receiving damage.

Speed Battle Power-Ups

In Sonic Forces: Speed Battle, there are unique power-ups that each playable character can access, granting them an advantage in the race. There are three types of power-ups to each character: a projectile, a boost, and a trap (as well as an additional shield if the boost isn’t necessary at the moment). Chaos, as one of the playable characters in the game, has his own set of power-ups as well. These include:

Ice Wave	“Chill opponents’ hearts by freezing their controls.” Chaos sends a wall of ice that moves forward. Opponents hit by it get frozen solid.
Ice Mine	“Give your opponents a sub-zero surprise and put their intentions on ice.” Three ice balls that are placed around as a trap power-up. Freezes anyone who touches.
Ice Boost	“Glide forward at speed and put the freeze on any opponent you hit.” The Ice Boost is an icy aura that surrounds Chaos, dashing him forward with better speed and freezing anyone who he hits.

Resistances

• Extreme Cold, Ice Manipulation and Cosmic Radiations: Chaos is able to freely act in space. In addition, he's able to break out of his own ice attacks in Sonic Forces: Speed Battle in case they're copied by Metal Sonic or thrown by another Chaos.

• Space-Time Manipulation: Chaos is able to withstand attacks from multiple chaos powers in Sonic Battle that attack opponents with distorted space-time.

Kyogre 

Drizzle

Drizzle is an ability that lets Kyogre summon rain at the start of a battle. It also makes fire moves and Solar Beam 50% weaker under the rain.

Primordial Sea

Primordial Sea is Kyogre's ability when he enters his Primal form. It is shown to create heavy rain that is so powerful that it negates fire attacks.

Water-Type Moves

Water Pulse	A relatively standard water attack. It attacks with a powerful pulse of water, which is what it says on the tin. But it also has a 20% chance to confuse the enemy when it connects, and it has a 100% chance of hitting. This move will never miss.
Hydro Pump	Hydro Pump is an extremely powerful water attack that makes up for its lack of secondary effects with absurd raw power. Its accuracy can vary, but the sheer potency of this move makes it a classic for any Pokemon looking for some nautical damage.
Water Spout	Water Spout is a curious move that will deal damage relative to the health of the Pokemon using it. The higher the attacker’s health is, the stronger this move will be, with a maximum of a nightmarish 150 base power.
Aqua Tail	Aqua Tail is a physical water attack where the Pokemon attacks with its tail “as if it were a vicious wave in a raging storm.”
Muddy Water	Muddy Water is a move that deals damage, but it is also blessed with the bonus of having a 30% chance of lowering the target’s accuracy. This makes it all the harder for the victim to actually hit its opponent, a serious disadvantage in any battle.
Aqua Ring	Aqua Ring is an incredibly useful move that will passively heal its user throughout the battle. At the end of every turn, Aqua Ring will heal a sixteenth of the user’s health, and will keep doing so until the end of the battle.
Waterfall	Another physical water attack, Waterfall is a move that is used for, well, climbing waterfalls. It also has a chance of making the target flinch when it connects, causing them to lose their turn and be unable to do anything for a bit.
Origin Pulse	Kyogre’s signature move, the Origin Pulse is an immensely powerful attack where Kyogre strikes its enemies with a number of beams of light. This is one of the most powerful moves out there, and while it does not have perfect accuracy, it has a high chance of hitting.

Coverage Moves

Ice Beam	Ice Beam does exactly what you would expect it to do. It shoots a beam of ice. Fascinating. That said, the attack has a 100% chance of hitting and also a 10% chance of freezing the target completely, so it is a great move to have in pretty much any battle.
Blizzard	An immensely powerful ice-type attack, this move basically just drops a whole blizzard on the opponent. It has lower accuracy to make up for the frightening power, but when it hits, it hits like a truck. Or maybe a snowmobile. Regardless, it also boasts a 10% chance of freezing the target, except in the Japanese versions, where it has a 30% chance back in the Generation 1 games. That’s your trivia for the day.
Ancient Power	Ancient Power is a move that, at first, doesn’t look all that impressive. It only deals moderate damage, really. But then when you look at what else it can do, you can see why the move is so feared. It has a guaranteed hit, and also a 10% chance of raising the user’s stats. All of them. Good luck beating an opponent who has stacked Ancient Power buffs. You’re going to need it.
Body Slam	Body Slam is a move that, when used by Kyogre, drops a whole whale on the target. Sounds pretty devastating. It comes with a guaranteed hit and also is armed with a whopping 30% chance of paralyzing the target, which can stop them from doing anything for multiple turns in a row.
Double-Edge	Double-Edge is an absurdly powerful physical attack that deals a great deal of damage. But it comes at a cost, as the user suffers recoil damage that is a quarter of what they dealt to the target. Still, the ludicrous damage it can deal certainly makes it a move worth considering.
Sheer Cold	Sheer Cold is a terrifying move that can instantly defeat any Pokemon it hits. Except for Ice types, of course. Sheer Cold’s accuracy works off of a leveling system, so that the higher one’s level is compared to the target, the more likely it is to hit. At relative levels, the move has a 20% chance of hitting, with the percent rising by one for each level the opponent is higher. If the user is 80 levels higher than the target, Sheer Cold is a guaranteed hit. If the opponent has a higher level, though, Sheer Cold will always fail. While this ratio of hitting can be low, the fact that the move is an immediate knockout should it connect makes it a move worth watching out for regardless of one’s skill level.
Thunder	During several in-game events, Kyogre can be caught and can use Thunder when normally it shouldn’t. This move is an extremely powerful electric attack that deals very high damage, and also comes with a terrifying 30% chance of paralyzing the victim, shutting down their ability to reliably fight back. To make matters worse, while the move usually only has a 70% chance of hitting, it is a guaranteed hit when rain is on the field, making it a great move to have for Kyogre.
Hyper Beam	A giant, powerful beam of energy shoots out of Kyogre’s mouth. Like most powerful Pokemon that use the move in the anime, Kyogre doesn’t need to recharge after using it.

Status Moves

Calm Mind	Calm Mind is a useful move that enhances the user’s special attack and special defense stats with each use. This makes it where non-physical attacks deal even more damage, and also makes it where the user also takes less damage from non-physical attacks than they did before, a great boost to have on both fronts. This can also be stacked, as multiple Calm Minds can be used to further enhance these stats.
Scary Face	Scary Face is a super spooky move where the user makes a real scary face at the target. Probably really intense stuff. Regardless, this move makes the target slower than they were before, crippling their mobility and the chance to attack quickly.
Rest	The user sleeps. No, really, that’s what it does. Rest is a very potent healing move where the user takes a nap and restores all of their health to its maximum. This can also heal certain status effects such as poison, freezing, or paralysis, making it have great utility for treating a variety of problems. However, the user is left vulnerable for a full turn afterwards, so the move needs to be used strategically. Unless they have Sleep Talk or Early Bird.

Weather Manipulation

A general ability Kyogre has is the ability to control the weather. As a giant water whale, Kyogre can generate storms, typhoons, and cyclones.

Flight 

Kyogre doesn’t just sit in the water 24/7, it can actually fly.

Resistances

• Water-Type Moves: Kyogre being a water-type means they have a high resistance to water-type attacks. However, this does NOT mean they’re straight up immune. Kyogre can still be hit with water attacks but it doesn’t hurt it as much as say, a Fire-type or Ground-type Pokémon.

• Ice-Type Moves: Kyogre resists ice-type moves

• Fire-Type Moves: Kyogre resists fire-type moves due to being a water-type Pokémon. As the nature of the type triangle.

• Steel-Type Moves: Kyogre resists steel-type moves. Meaning you can drop a whale-sized metal pipe on the guy and it won’t affect it.

Arsenal 

Chaos 

Chaos Emeralds

The mythical 7 Chaos Emeralds. Legendary gemstones desired by their enormous power and capability of granting any wish. They can do basically anything you can think of! They grant several miracles, they can heal the user from losing consciousness, create life, bring beings back from death, manipulate weather, manipulate dreams, bring back memories if they’re lost, fabricate visions and are capable of warping reality. The user can also use these emeralds to power themselves, as is the case of Chaos, who uses the Emeralds so he can achieve his powerful transformations. The Chaos Emeralds are stated numerous times to possess unlimited and/or infinite power.

Kyogre

Blue Orb

An item that causes Primal Reversion to happen, causing base Kyogre to become Primal Kyogre. 

Event Items

Water Gem

It’s a gem that boosts the power of a Water-type move one time. It cannot be used more than once per battle.

Choice Scarf

This item boosts speed for the user, at the cost of only being able to use the first move they do for the entirety of the battle. Unless they are swapped out.

Gold Bottle Cap

It’s just a really shiny bottle cap.

Forms

Chaos 

Chaos 0

His base form. The weakest one, even though still pretty impressive. With his limited water manipulation, shapeshifting and sheer strength, he still poses a threat to many of the characters.

Chaos 1

Chaos’ first form, when he absorbs a single Chaos Emerald. He increases in size, and gains a bone line that travels down his right arm. His abilities are unknown, but it’s likely he possesses the same as Chaos 0’s, just more potent versions.

Chaos 2

Chaos’ second form, after he absorbs 2 Chaos Emeralds. In this form, he becomes much bigger and tougher, gaining an additional bone line in his other arm and vertical hammerhead fins. His hydrokinetic abilities gain even more applicabilities. First, he is capable of turning into a large ball, an attack called the “Squash Roll attack”, that can create small areas of effects that cause damage; “Instantaneous Liquidation”, a move where liquifies himself over an entire area, causing damage; energy beams; and “Marble Attack”, where he separates into several small water balls that fall into opponents.

Chaos 2 can also create force fields powerful enough to withstand punches from Knuckles and generate electricity around his body, using it both offensively and defensively, as a shield that protects him, stuns his opponents, and damages them with electricity.

Chaos 3

Does not exist. Moving on!

Chaos 4

Chaos’ fourth form, after absorbing 4 Chaos Emeralds. Chaos 4 becomes more akin to a water creature similar to a shark, and that’s basically how he acts in this form. He fights underwater, using the opportunities to attack opponents from below. He can levitate, too! Because sharks can totally do that!

Offensively, he has a move called “Quarter Attack”, in which he splits his body into four balls to attack opponents from the surroundings. He can send energy waves to damage opponents (that also serves as a powerful wind attack), and he can create water tornadoes.

Chaos 5

Does not exist. Moving on!

Chaos 6

Chaos’ sixth form, after absorbing 6 Chaos Emeralds. It’s Chaos’ penultimate form, where he becomes some sort of… scorpion… spider… frog-like creature? With a heck ton of tentacles. In this form, his body is nigh-impenetrable, with its only method of getting hit being freezing him. He can sharpen his tentacles to use them as spikes and use his mouth as a vacuum to… erm… vore, I guess.

Perfect Chaos

Chaos’ ultimate form. After absorbing all of the 7 Chaos Emeralds, Chaos becomes Perfect Chaos, a giant serpentine dragon-like beast with a mouth extending far beyond its eyes, which are now reptilian, and a scale-like hide instead of a skeleton, with several tentacles around him. He is able to merge with water and has immense hydrokinetic abilities that lets him create large-scale water sprouts, command water tornadoes, and control entire floods which are destructive enough to destroy all of Station Square. 

He can shoot energy projectiles and massive energy beams, create large force fields, redirect projectiles by absorbing them with his body and throwing back through his mouth, and an even more impressive regeneration, being able to come back from nothing but water. It’s a huge threat, the one who destroyed Knuckles’ clan a long time ago. That is until Tikal sealed him in the Master Emerald, both in the past and the present, the latter when Super Sonic successfully purified his rage.

Kyogre

Primal Kyogre

Long ago, Hoenn was host to a bizarre and powerful energy that Groudon and Kyogre fought over, because of course they did. This energy gave Kyogre its true form, but it was long ago lost after Mega Rayquaza defeated both it and Groudon. Nowadays, while Kyogre’s normal power is apocalyptic and practically the seas incarnate, the big whale is not at its true power until it undergoes Primal Reversion. Once it does so, Kyogre will unlock its full strength, which we call Primal Kyogre. This form is said to be Kyogre’s original form from long ago, with all of its power brought out to the maximum once again. Said to be capable of expanding the seas by a great deal just by simply taking a swim, Kyogre’s mastery over the seas is undisputed, and its stats also skyrocket. Primal Kyogre also comes with a new ability, Primordial Sea, which comes with the perk of completely nullifying all Fire-Type attacks. Kyogre is already a terrifying force of nature. But with this form, it will strike upon the world with all of the raw fury of a maelstrom, and all Hoenn will crash into the deep.

Feats

Chaos

Overall

• Was the first guardian of the Master Emerald

• Almost extinguished the entire Knuckles clan

• Went on par with multiple characters like Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and even Super Sonic 

• watuh monsta

Attack Potency

• Chaos 2’s water blasts cut through trees and houses

• Chaos 2 can fight evenly with Sonic and Knuckles

• Chaos 6 (?) causes an earthquake

• A Chaos 0 Phantom Ruby clone fought evenly against Knuckles and Silver

• It also made Tails cry for help like a bitch

• Phantom Ruby clones are formidable as their original counterparts

• Destroyed the Egg Carrier airship with its energy beam (as seen in the gif above)

• Perfect Chaos easily cuts buildings in half

• Perfect Chaos flooded Station Square

• Knuckles states that Chaos is more powerful than all of them

• Throughout his forms, Chaos is powered by the Chaos Emeralds, until Perfect Chaos, which absorbs all seven

• The power of only one Chaos Emerald can move large fragments of the Earth (50.07 Yottatons of TNT)

• The energies from the Chaos Emeralds sent the colossal Space Colony ARK careening towards Earth at high velocities

• The Chaos Emeralds’ power can pierce through stars

• Chaos Emeralds are equal in power to the Sol Emeralds, which merged Blaze’s world with Sonic’s (Debatable)

• The Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds resonance of power would’ve instantly collapsed the universe had Sonic not been in control of the Chaos Emeralds (Debatable)

Durability

• Chaos 0 takes a punch from Knuckles like it's nothing 

• Chaos 2 can take direct hits from Knuckles and later reforms back

• His multiple forms can all tank damage to their weak spot

• Perfect Chaos survived multiple hits from Super Sonic (Debatable)

Speed

• Keeps up with the majority of the cast

• Chaos 0 dodges an attack from Knuckles (as seen in the gif above)

• Chaos 6 creates a water pillar to steal the last Chaos Emerald, before Sonic and Tails can get to it

• Perfect Chaos slaps Sonic faster than his Spin-Dash

• Perfect Chaos regenerates on the other side of Station Square after being destroyed by Super Sonic after a few seconds

• Perfect Chaos reacts to Super Sonic by creating a force field before he attacks (Debatable)

Kyogre

Overall

• Part of the Weather Trio alongside Groudon and Rayquaza

• Was caught by Lana, allegedly

• beeg whale

Attack Potency 

• Can fight on par with Groudon

• Can create storms so strong, it causes sea levels to rise

• Created a large whirlpool in its Primal form

• Creates a massive storm cloud over Hoenn (10.955 Megatons of TNT)

• In their battle with Groudon, threatened the destruction of a region and was sending Sootopolis City into the sky

• Can create a tidal wave so big, it has potential to submerge an entire island, said island also has a volcano

• A Kyogre Avatar created by Jirachi was stated to be able to sink the Frontier Island

• Primal Kyogre was stated to be able to “sink” AKA flood the earth (25.51 Exatons of TNT)

Durability

• Can fight on par with Groudon… again

• It even took a direct hit from one of Groudon’s Precipice Blades

• Tanked Mega Rayquaza’s Draco Meteor

• Took a Meteor Mash from Mega Metagross, which can blow off the top of a mountain

Speed

• Dodged Groudon’s Solar Beam

• Dodged Metagross’ Flash Cannon

• Can keep up with Mega Latios and Mega Latias in flight, and later dodges Mega Rayquaza’s Hyper Beam

• Mega Latios and Mega Latias can fly at speeds reaching Mach 4

Scaling

Chaos

Sonic

The fastest thing alive, Mr. Blue Blur himself! Throughout the games and anime, Chaos in all of his forms have shown to match him in power and speed (being the main antagonist of a game does come in handy), so it isn’t too stretched to say Chaos can scale to Sonic.

• Sonic broke the chain link connected to Little Planet (3.282 Teratons of TNT)

• Sonic CD’s japanese manual says he exceeds lightspeed

• Omega claims he would exceed the speed of light

• Sonic can outrun Cyan Wisps, that are said to be lightspeed 

• Dodged lasers (7.79c)

• Dodged more lasers (17030c)

• Can react to Shadow’s Chaos Control mid warping

• Sonic outruns but eventually gets blasted with a Hyper-Go-On black hole

• It should be superior to Violet Void’s black hole (1 FOE)

• Can defeat Master CORE ABIS, who creates a massive black hole (6.5 FOE)

• Sonic can run through interstellar distances

• Sonic withstands the explosion of the Paradox Prism, which shattered the entire universe (Debatable)

Silver & Shadow 

It is use! Because Chaos 0’s Phantom Ruby clone could trade blows with Silver, it should naturally scale to him not only in Chaos 0 but his forms. By that, we can also scale Chaos to the Ultimate Lifeform through keeping up with many characters of the cast.

• Silver combines a wide assortment of cars, concrete chunks and random pieces of scrap metal into a makeshift ram to hit Sonic with

• Silver’s psychokinesis stops the Death Egg

• Shadow shatters a small meteor

• Shadow destroys the Death Egg with his Chaos Blast

• Shadow reacts while traveling through a light speed circuit

• Shadow’s Chaos Control reacts to the explosion of the Paradox Prism

Tails & Knuckles

SONIC, HELP ME!!!!

Jokes aside, Chaos can keep up with both Tails and Knuckles throughout the games. In Adventure and Sonic X, he can fight evenly with the two, even when teamed up with Sonic. In Forces, as his Phantom Ruby clone, Chaos 0 fights well against both Knuckles and Silver and… yeah, we don’t need to talk about Tails, do we?

• Tails can lift 10 tons!

• Tails and Knuckles, alongside Sonic and Amy, stop a moving train

• Tails knocks back Metal Sonic with a kick, who had been powered up by all seven Chaos Emeralds

• Knuckles punches the ground, causing a massive portion of a cliff he was fighting on to split off

• Knuckles lifts a large boulder out of the ground and chucks it at his opponent

Emerl

By keeping up with the rest of the cast and being superior in Perfect Chaos, he can scale to another character who beat everyone down, Emerl! He’s even powered by the seven Emeralds to perform some feats (even though he gets defeated later on, but regardless, it would apply to Chaos anyways).

• Emerl sends Eggman and his Eggmobile flying

• Emerl captured the Final Egg Blaster, which can destroy multiple stars in one shot (465 ExaFOE) (Debatable)

• The Final Egg Blaster reaches a star cluster in seconds (6 Billion c - 60 Billion c)

Doctor Eggman

The genius Doctor Eggman, who helped on Chaos’ development throughout Sonic Adventure only for his goals. Unfortunately, this would end up betraying him as Chaos becomes more and more powerful than he could control. It is obvious that Chaos would upscale his most basic machines, and operate similarly in power with Eggman’s technology that utilizes the energy of the Chaos Emeralds.

• PISSED ON THE MOOOOOOOOONNN!!! (376.99 Zettatons of TNT)

• Eggman survives the explosion of the Death Egg

• The Eggmobile survives being sucked by a Hyper-Go-On black hole

• Eggman is unharmed after the Gigantic Angel Zone Boss explodes around him, still managing to run away

• Falls a great distance to his fortress, which quickly sinks and blows up

Super Sonic (Debatable)

The mighty, golden transformation achieved by using the full power of the Chaos Emeralds. In the final battle of Sonic Adventure, Perfect Chaos faces Super Sonic, although it is much more complicated given the situations that happen in Sonic Generations. Regardless, he can still endure several attacks and even managed to react to the form, making the scaling not impossible. More elaboration on such possible levels of power will be explained in Before the Verdict.

• Super Sonic flies to the moon

• Super Sonic can fight against the Egg Wizard, who has a planet busting laser

• Super Sonic defeated Solaris

• Eggman stated that Solaris would consume all existing timelines and annihilate the meaning of time itself, turning everything into nothing

• Solaris was stated to be destroying all of space-time

• Solaris could spread his light across the universe, possibly all timelines (77 Quadrillion c, likely higher)

• Super Sonic defeated the Time Eater

• Time Eater destroyed space-time on a scale encompassing all of reality / "all of space-time", reducing everything into a white void.

• Time Eater destroys Classic Sonic’s dimension in a short timeframe (4.9 Quadrillion c)

• Super Sonic defeated The End

• The End destroys a planet

• The End destroyed countless stars

Kyogre

Regular Pokémon

Being classed as a “Legendary” Pokémon, Kyogre should reasonably upscale or be comparable to normal Pokémon. As in the game’s story, realistically any Pokemon can fight and possibly even defeat Kyogre in battle.

• Seismic Toss go! (133.43 Kilotons - 221.37 Ronnatons of TNT) (Debatable)

• Machamp can move mountains with one hand

• Machamp punches are compared to a megaton of TNT (1 Megaton of TNT, WOW!)

• Pokemon can use Magnitude 1-10 which can cause earthquakes (1.04 Teratons of TNT)

• Dragonair can destroy a city (45.88 Megatons of TNT)

• Electivire can power up a large city for a year

• Gigalith is capable of blasting away mountains

• Tyranitar can crumble mountains just by walking (3.2 Gigatons of TNT)

• It pre-evolution Pupitar can topple a mountain (187.1 Kilotons of TNT)

• Slowking can telekinetically lift up an island

• Sawk can “cleave the ocean in half” (5.15 Megatons - 3.17 Petatons of TNT)

• Gothitelle can move stars from thousands of lightyears away (756 Ronnatons of TNT / 17.53 Million c - 70.12 Million c) (Debatable)

• Gardevoir can form mini black holes 

• Gardevoir can also create a pocket dimension full of stars (140.9373 PetaFOE) (Debatable)

• Its pre-evolution, Kirlia can “rip into dimensions”

• Ludicolo can evaporate clouds with Sunny Day (1.58 Exatons of TNT)

• Roserade fired a projectile to the sun (219.54c)

• Diglett can move at the speed of light 

Groudon

Groundon has been Kyogre's rival since ancient times. For thousands of years the two have constantly fought very evenly, almost always stalemating, so Kyogre scaling to Groudon is very obvious.

• Is stated to be able to raise continents (216.31 Petatons of TNT)

• Supposedly can disperse storm clouds and caused volcanoes to erupt

• Creates an artificial sun (30.43 Megatons - 2.218 Gigatons of TNT / Mach 280)

Legendary Pokémon

Pokémon has many Legendaries, and Kyogre, as the creator of the oceans and because he battles constantly with Groundon, is one of Pokémon’s most powerful threats of the world, and should scale to most other Legendary Pokémon in the series.

• Entei’s barks can cause volcanic eruptions

• Raikou “embodies the speed of lightning”

• Lugia can create 40-day long storms (497.13 Gigatons of TNT)

• Latios can fly faster than jet planes

• Regigigas allegedly pulled continents (2.65 Teratons of TNT)

• Reshiram has been stated to be able to scorch the world over (275.93 Petatons of TNT)

• Kyurem’s power was being used by Team Plasma to freeze over Opelucid City

• Kyurem could potentially freeze over all of Unova

• Tornadus can create storms strong enough to blow houses away and fly at 200 miles per hour

Rayquaza

Rayquaza is the third member of the Weather Trio and has control over the skies. He came down to tell Groudon and Kyogre to get their shit together or he’s going to rock both of their shit up. No seriously, that's the lore reason. While Rayquaza is blatantly above Kyogre it has taken hits from Rayquaza and even Mega Rayquaz,  meaning Kyogre should be able to at least downscale its power a bit.

• Mega Rayquaza can stop the Grand Meteor Delta’s Motion which was going to destroy the world and reduce it to ashes (21.476 Yottatons of TNT)

• Rayquaza battled against Deoxys, who controlled the Grand Meteor Delta from the edge of the galaxy to Earth (986174.91c) (Debatable)

• Same meteor would destroy the planet (896.53 Zettatons of TNT)

Creation Trio (Debatable)

The 3 Pokémon responsible for creating time, space and matter in the Pokémon universe. While Kyogre (or anyone in the Weather Trio) scaling to them is questionable, there has at least some points, such as when you can fight Kyogres after dealing with Dialga and Palkia in Rainbow Rocket, the Hoopa movie where Rayquaza can fight equally with them, etc. 

• The Creation Trio (Dialga & Palkia mainly) were able to launch their entire dimensions at high speeds 

• Dialga maintains time itself

• Palkia was gonna reset all reality

• They were responsible for ½ - ⅓ of the creation of the Pokémon universe

• Dialga and Palkia fighting were distorting all of reality until eventually collapsing it

Weaknesses

Chaos

This is not Chaos Control, that's Chaos Groom All!

Chaos is an unstoppable force of nature, but as powerful or as indestructible he may seem, inside his water body lies his biggest weakness: his brain. This isn’t because he’s dumb, but when your entire body is pretty much made entirely of water, your one vital organ sticks out like a sore thumb, and that one organ is what actually hurts him. While he can still regenerate and mold his body from anything, Chaos’ brain if hurt enough is capable of making him go back to a puddle or be incapacitated, a method which always explodes because of how hard he is to put down by other attempts.

Kyogre

While Kyogre is undoubtedly one of the mightiest forces in the world of Pokemon, it still isn’t perfect, and it has been defeated multiple times for good reason. Like any Water-Type Pokemon, Kyogre is quite weak to grass and electric moves, which can deal significantly more damage to it than any other move. Its Primal form has also been cut off by significantly powerful forces, or by exerting itself to such a point that it gives in to exhaustion. Should this happen, Kyogre will need to find another source of Primal energy to get its strength back, forcing it to become vulnerable or become dormant for a time.

Also it and Groudon fumble against Rayquaza every single time. That dragon doesn’t mess around.

Before We Decide

Final Egg Blaster Scaling

One heck of an infamous feat around Sonic VS stats is Emerl absorbing Final Egg Blaster’s power, getting him to MSS and MFTL+. Many think it would not scale to base forms, considering it an outlier, or say that Emerl would kill himself from that, making him not scale at all. In this section, we’re explaining and counter arguing some common misconceptions and counter arguments. 

First, let’s address “Emerl was malfunctioning only after absorbing/copying only a portion/fraction of the FEB's power rather than it being a result of it being its full power”. This was never stated. It was only ever stated that Emerl had successfully copied its data and was in pain due to trying to contain the energy of the Final Egg Blaster. Occam's razor would dictate that Emerl copied the full power of the Final Egg Blaster as it is only ever noted that he successfully copied it. Now to address the malfunctioning bit; As stated by Tails, Emerl had absorbed power beyond his limits, and his body couldn't contain it fully. Because of this, Tails believed that after Sonic beat him in combat, he'd die, likely as a result of his body being in too weak of a shape to contain the energy. However, Shadow's comment after Emerl being defeated implies Tails was wrong. He didn't die because his body was in too weak of a state to contain the FEB's power, but because Gerald had programmed Emerl to destroy himself if he ever lost control. Which occurred the moment after he copied the FEB's power. This indicates that Emerl would have been able to live with the copied power of the Final Egg Blaster had it not been for the "safe switch" implemented by Gerald.

However, let's assume that's not the case, and that he would have died either way. This is no basis to not scale Emerl to the FEB. The fact he was able to contain that power and engage in several rounds of combat with Sonic and only died DUE to being weakened by Sonic meant he was momentarily able to contain the power. The issue would be managing it in the long run, which was the issue from the start. It’s not right to dismiss someone scaling because they would eventually succumb to their own power.

However, if that's not satisfactory, base cast should still scale off of the FEB post Sonic Battle as Eggman goes on to create Gemerl in the very next game. Gemerl is stated to be the Ultimate fighting robot who was made using the data of Emerl that Eggman had gathered after his defeat. Because of this, Gemerl should upscale from Emerl after having copied the power of the Final Egg Blaster as he's both made with his data, and stated to be his Ultimate fighting robot at the time (And should thus scale above the FEB which is one of Eggman's machines and Emerl who mimicked its power). There's also the Egg Dragoon, said to be the pinnacle of Eggman's science, which means it would be superior to the Final Egg Blaster in everything.

So, a quick TL;DR: Emerl did absorb the FEB and should scale to its potency. And even if he was gonna die, it’s unreasonable to say he doesn’t scale. Sonic defeated him, so it should apply to base forms. Sonic did defeat Gemerl as well, further helping the scaling. At the end of the day, though, Perfect Chaos absorbs all the Emeralds much like Emerl, so it’s possible he scales by that way too.

HUGE credits to this thread by LaserPrecision for the arguments. Make sure to check out for extra arguments.

Universal Base Sonic?!

If MSS wasn’t weird enough…

OK! So, this has been a topic that seemingly gets discussed more often than not nowadays due to more and more showings that seem to further improve arguments made to help it. Years ago, it was hard to put Super Sonic at even universal, and now, this much power to his base form? It definitely seems weird, right? Well, it could be, but it’s interesting to bring a few arguments to back up such claims, so let’s start.

We all know about what happens in Sonic Prime. In the first minutes of the first episode of the series, Sonic attempts to stop Eggman from taking the Paradox Prism to himself, but ends up destroying it, shattering the entire universe as a consequence. What is interesting here is that Sonic takes the explosion point blank, and seems to be fine after it shattered all of reality to 5 other alternate universes, and a void, which he finds himself in. One common counter argument for such scaling is that Paradox Prism didn’t destroy reality with an explosive force, but rather it manipulated space-time and/or reality around. This is a weird argument, as we can clearly see many, many pieces of what seems to be meteors or other elements that are reminiscent of destroyed planets after the Paradox Prism explodes. The visuals imply it was an explosive outburst, even the characters get sent far when it happens. It’s more likely it was a byproduct of both an explosion force and space-time/reality manipulation, as it shattered the universe and created alternate dimensions with shattered versions of the cast.

Another counter to it is arguing Sonic scaling to something on that potency as an outlier, as base form Sonic characters don’t show absurd feats like the Prism’s explosion. But. in reality, it’s not too far-fetched. Sonic has performed feats that could back up this level of power, such as when Sonic outmuscled and defeated Erazor Djinn and Ifrit Golem through Sonic and the Secret Rings, who could burn/absorb half of the Arabian Nights, and the Arabian Nights is an entire universe; Sonic can fix space-time with his speed alone in Sonic Generations, and Sonic defeats Master CORE ABIS amped by 5 Arks of the Cosmos, which can convert a planet’s mass energy into a black hole singularity (which has infinite density). 

Lastly, Super Sonic possesses much higher scaling than just universal. Thanks to defeating characters like Solaris and the Time Eater, who can wipe all of space-time (AKA the entire cosmology), independently of where you have the cosmology, it is greatly beyond universal, which would make universal base forms not that hard to believe.

Overall, while we won’t be relying much on this for the blog, universal base Sonic has solid enough arguments and back up. It is possible there may be counters or some disagreement, but we leave you, readers, to form an opinion on the matter.

Super Sonic Scaling

Ok, let’s address the elephant in the room.

When it comes to Chaos’ scaling in VS, this is one of the biggest questions that come to mind. In Sonic Adventure, Perfect Chaos becomes too much of a threat for the cast to handle. At that point, he was stronger than everyone, so Sonic, using the Chaos Emeralds, unleashed its true power and became Super Sonic to beat Perfect Chaos. While in the fight itself, Perfect Chaos can react to him and withstand a good amount of Sonic’s attacks, one thing that happened years later brought a serious situation that impacted many people’s views on such scaling: Sonic Generations. In the game, Perfect Chaos is one of the few boss fights, but there’s an issue. Unlike in Adventure, Perfect Chaos in this game is defeated by base form Sonic. This creates heavy confusion among the VS community: does he scale? Does he not scale? We’ll try to answer everything here.

First, how would he scale? Simple. In Sonic Adventure, Perfect Chaos can keep up pretty good with Super Sonic. He can react to his attacks and tank multiple hits. It would be enough to prove that he can at least get to the same range. You might be asking: “but hey, isn’t that Adventure Super Sonic? Doesn’t Modern Super Sonic get much higher, to the point Perfect Chaos doesn’t scale?”. The answer is: it’s tricky, but probably not. Sonic Channel has stated that in the climax of the Perfect Chaos fight, Super Sonic was using the full power of the Chaos Emeralds, and narratively speaking, it’s a bit silly to assume they fluctuate in power when the majority of the time, they’re used as a major win condition. Shadow states that he can utilize the full power of a Chaos Emerald. Why is Super Sonic equal to Burning Blaze on two separate occasions despite Blaze using a different power source that's never technically stated to flux in power? What about Sonic's situation or usage of the Emeralds against Gemerl, is it different from him using them against the Egg Wizard or Dark Gaia or Time Eater? It creates a lot more questions than it answers. If Super Sonic's stats really did fluctuate like that, you would think it'd be brought up in a game like Sonic Frontiers, where Sonic uses his super form a whopping 7 times with seemingly no change in power. Additionally, this idea is brought again by Ian Flynn, writer of the series, where he implies similar thoughts. Considerable, since he was the one who wrote Starline’s quote about Chaos Emeralds’s power being "chaotic, and can change given the situation or their usage”, implying it’s referring to other things powered by Chaos Emeralds instead of Super forms. There is also the infamous example of Classic Super Sonic being as powerful as Modern Super Sonic in their fight with the Time Eater, and Adventure Sonic, being superior to Classic, should be no different from their power. In Mania, Classic Super Sonic defeats the Heavy King powered by the Phantom Ruby, a gemstone capable of creating an endless space that goes on forever, and Adventure Super Sonic should be superior if you go by the logic they grow in power.

But what about base Sonic in Generations? Didn’t he defeat Perfect Chaos with not that much difficulty? Well, yes, he did, but it likely comes as an outlier. You see, that boss fight likely hadn’t so much lore focus and it was just made to be a cool addition to the game, because base forms matching power levels of Super forms just doesn’t make sense lore wise, and that would come off as a weird case. For example, base form characters (Modern and Classic Sonic + the Avatar from Forces) could match the Death Egg Robot being powered by the Phantom Ruby, but in Sonic Mania and Sonic Mania Plus, Super Sonic fights Heavy King powered by the Phantom Ruby (the Phantom Ruby is one of the only entities that were able to physically harm Super Sonic in their fight by causing them damage). In Sonic Channel, Super Sonic also fights Lightman Eggman, a super form from a modified Phantom Ruby. In Sonic Frontiers, base Sonic could react to attacks from a berserk Wyvern, even though it took Super Sonic to match and defeat that Titan. To put it short, it’s simply inconsistent to use that to nerf Perfect Chaos when the boss fight wasn’t nearly as significant as the one in Sonic Adventure, and it’s just a cool boss fight for the game, and base forms matching it wouldn’t make any sense. Regardless of lore or narrative intention, it shouldn't be used to try and discredit an entire scaling chain. By this same logic, this would be applied to other instances such as Knuckles fighting Super Mecha Sonic in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Lastly, Emeralds are treated as superior to everything else in the series, and there's no reason that combined they wouldn't be better than most feats in the verse, so they'd still scale to things like The Eclipse Cannon, Final Egg Blaster, Nega Wisp Black Hole, and Sonic face-tanking the universe imploding, etc. This would greatly help Perfect Chaos to approach the higher tier feats in Sonic.

Overall, while the points against the scaling can be reasonable, there are many things that help Chaos’ case to match Super form levels of power. He took Super Sonic’s attacks and was fast enough to react to him, Super forms doesn’t fluctuate in power (and there’s just many back ups to this claim), and base Sonic in Generations defeating Perfect Chaos could be considered irrelevant, as it would create many more questions in the scaling chain rather than answers.

Grand Meteor Delta Speed

It’s fine. 10 days from the edge of the galaxy to earth, with the assumption that earth is at the middle of course, is still ridiculously FTL. And Deoxys was controlling it the entire way. Edge of the galaxy isn’t an assumption either. The monitors literally show the location of the meteor, and it’s at the end of one of the Milky Way’s spiral arms. The argument against it would actually make it faster, because it would mean Deoxys and the meteor would’ve crossed that same distance in less than a day, since there’s still 10 days remaining.

Wild Pokémon Feats

Due to recent discussions and works, certain wild Pokémon feats have been getting much more attention recently because of how high they get (all the way up to cosmic levels). So, are they legit or not? This is what we’ll be discussing in this section. We’ll take about three particular feats. Starting with…

Seismic Toss

Seismic Toss should be the easiest one to talk about. The move where the Pokémon jumps with the opponent beyond Earth and goes back with devastating strength. It is notable for getting in the kilotons of TNT range, but recently, a ronnatons of TNT calculation has been done. This is due to Pokémon Stadium stating that the move “flips the Earth”, and uses gameplay animations that could consistently back up this claim. Unfortunately, the biggest issue here is that none of those animations seem to be literal, and more so just for visuals. The Stadium animations, for example, are just simple camera movements (shown by the stars moving along with the planet in the gif above); they don’t make Pokémon literally flip the Earth around. And for the Gold & Silver example, the visuals show a very small planet, smaller than the Pokémon themselves. That G/S one is also literally a joke calc (source: the person who made the calc is typing this sentence) 

Safe to say, they don’t literally flip or move the Earth, and the animations are more so dynamic camera movements and visuals.

Gothitelle Moving Stars

This one comes from one of Gothitelle’s Pokédex entries, where it assumes she “moved” stars thousands of lightyears away. However, there’s one big problem: it doesn’t actually say that. The Pokédex says that “starry skies thousands of light-years away are visible in the space distorted by their intense psychic power”. Which means, she just creates space rifts so that you can see stars there. Additionally, if you really want to rely on the Pokédex entry without any back up in the games or anime, Gothitelle’s Scarlet Pokédex entry says she shows dreams to her opponents about the universe’s end. You could likely link one to another.

Gardevoir’s Black Holes and Starry Sky Dimension

Oh boy.

It’s stated in their Pokédex that Gardevoir can distort dimensions (in Kirlia’s, Gardevoir’s pre-evolution, says that they can rip dimensions) and additionally, in Pokken, she creates a dimension full of stars, a feat that gets very high into large star to multi-solar system if calculated. The argument has a bit of merit at first, since it really looks like they create said dimension, and her black holes have statements of light not escaping, but further than that, her black holes have a bit of inconsistency and that can affect Pokken’s feat as well. It’s never been shown to spatially manipulate matter (only showcasing a vortex effect) and it’s commonly visibly across the series shown off as a wormhole that leads to a pocket dimension, which would match with what happens in Pokken (in the game files, it says "Gardevoir throws a ball of psychic energy at her opponent sending them into the air. They land in a portal that takes both the opponent and Gardevoir into space." which would nuke the feat even further). Besides, it has no indications that she created the realm or made several stars except really insisting on a few frames and pointing out some stars in the background shining more than others. Overall, while you can definitely make an argument for it, it has inconsistency and the move can be completely different from what is argued.

Also, it gets cut off by Leaf Blade, c’mon Gardy.

Creation Trio Scaling

Pokemon in general scaling to the Creation Trio, Legendary or otherwise, is…contentious at best. While the Weather Trio are formidable planetary threats, that’s a far cry away from the cosmic threats that the Creation Trio are. The evidence for them scaling would include instances of them being fought after protagonists have fought the Creation Trio, such as in Ultra Space after Elio experiences the events of the Rainbow Rocket arc, Dynamax Adventures where all the Legendaries are fought in the same space and similar timeframe, or Ranamas Park, a post-game area where you fight and catch Legendaries in BDSP, and you can’t even get to it after you beat the main game, which obviously means beating Palkia/Dialga. There’s also events from the side media like the Hoopa movie having Rayquaza fight Giratina, or PokeSpe where protagonist Gold needed ten trainers (including himself) to defeat a false Kyogre, but can take blows from Arceus himself. The issue is…it’s still inconsistent. The Creation Trio are far too big of a deal in lore for there to be so many equals. If Kyogre scaled for these reasons, that means a host of other Legendaries, even fodder like Moltres (no shade, Moltres) would at the very least downscale. You could argue that it’s a JRPG, and randos scaling to gods is another Tuesday in that medium, let alone other gods themselves, but you’d have a hell (or in this case Distortion World) of an uphill battle.

Verdict

Stats

In terms of stats, Chaos and Kyogre have a few different ends you can use. First of all, let’s use the bare minimum for AP. For Kyogre, this would be his direct feat of being able to flood the earth, which gets 25 exatons of TNT. This is Multi-Continental, and extremely impressive. However, this is massively outdone by Chaos being able to scale to a single Chaos Emerald, which gets 50 yottatons of TNT - aka, Large Planet Level, giving Chaos a very strong strength advantage going into this fight. Granted, you could give Kyogre Rayquaza scaling, which would even this out some more, but Kyogre would be seriously downscaling this for… obvious reasons, and Chaos would be upscaling 1 emerald, making the strength gap still very big for Kyogre.

Granted, we brought up potential higher feats for Kyogre, so let’s be generous and give them to him; they have issues, but you could argue them. But, if you’re going to argue iffy feats for Kyogre, it’d only be fair to give Chaos Final Egg Blaster scaling - after all, both have their own discussions over validity, and with this in mind, Kyogre would still be significantly weaker than Chaos, no matter the ends - and if you really want to go farther, you could argue Super Sonic and Creation Trio scaling, but Chaos both has more consistent arguments for scaling higher, and should likely scale higher in the first place. Chaos should pretty consistently scale far above Kyogre in strength, no matter what end you use for him. 

Speed is a bit more debatable, but should also likely lean in Chaos’ court. Both obviously scale to some pretty blatant FTL feats, and both have some MFTL feats to scale to - Sonic dodging lasers and Roserade lighting up the sun, and Sonic’s speed feat is definitely faster than Roserade’s, being 219.54c for Roserade vs. Sonic’s laser dodging being 17050c, putting Chaos at significantly faster than Kyogre.

However, you could argue the Deoxys meteor both scaling to Kyogre being way faster, but once again, Final Egg Blaster scaling trumps it once again, with the Deoxys meteor getting 986174.91c, vs the Final Egg Blaster getting 6 billion c to 60 billion c, making Chaos far, far faster. And the higher ends for both would just even out, at that point.

So, overall, Chaos should take the stat trinity with both low and high ends, giving him the edge in this category.

Arsenal and Abilities

Both Chaos and Kyogre possess devastating powers and abilities available in their arsenal, going much beyond just water. In this battle of versatile apocalyptic monsters, who takes the tsunawin (sorry)? First, let’s cover up their main thing: water attacks. Both have pretty good control over them: they can create massive waves, shoot beams of water and projectiles, et cetera. Kyogre  can hit confusions with Water Pulse, make him lose a bit of accuracy with Muddy Water, and Origin Pulse are extremely powerful beams. Chaos, on the other hand, can use his hydrokinetic abilities to shoot water ripples to confuse opponents (another move, Chaos Strike, can make opponents dizzy independent of where they are) and use Chaos Bind to freeze opponents for 30 seconds, making them unable to do anything. 

Moving up a bit, what about Thunder? Wouldn’t that be extremely useful against Chaos’ water body, a vulnerable conductor and a good chance to directly hurt his brain? Yes, but Chaos has multiple ways to avoid being hit with those. He can create force fields around his entire body, Chaos Guard that also helps him block powerful blows, and most surprisingly create electricity around his body, so nothing stops him from absorbing Thunder. Besides, he can use it offensively, which would put Kyogre at risk, since that would do super effective damage on him. Chaos Strike, Bind or Impact are just far better ways to guarantee stopping the ancient whale for a good amount of time.

Talking about other factors, both have good ways of healing themselves, but Chaos’ just seem much more reliable. Rest is obviously incredibly unreliable, as Kyogre would be put to sleep and as such, probably die. It doesn’t help that he does not have attacks like Sleep Talk. Aqua Ring, however, heals sixteenth of his health each time he uses it, but it simply does not stack up to Chaos Heal or his insane regeneration, which makes him come back from puddles or any kind of water. Scary Face would decrease Chaos’ speed, but not to the point it’s extreme enough to put Chaos at a disadvantage (plus, it can be Protected!).

But, now, it’s time for the moment you’ve been waiting for: can Chaos deal with Sheer Cold? While the debate over the accuracy of Sheer Cold hitting Chaos is a thing, in the anime we can see that Sheer Cold’s area of effect is much bigger than that, so that’s definitely a problem for Chaos, right? Well, maybe. Sheer Cold hits with absolute zero, AKA -273.15 degrees Celsius, which is greater than the best Chaos could ever tank, that being space temperatures (-270 degrees Celsius). However, that ain’t much, so realistically Chaos could shrug it off or at least overcome it with strength. Chaos 6’s fight shows that Chaos can be vulnerable to freezing, but we have no idea how cold those satellites that Sonic/Knuckles throws at him are. We know that those were intended by Eggman to hit the playable characters, and Eggman has seen and experienced Sonic and Knuckles casually resisting space temperatures. This could imply he creates satellites more powerful than Sonic and Knuckles’ resistances, which did not happen as they went to Chaos instead. Ignoring that, though, Chaos has other ways of countering such attack: he has a few force fields to protect himself, including Chaos Guard, which protects from the OHKO moves in Sonic Battle; his regeneration was impressive enough to come back from being shattered to pieces and being completely blown, and, even more interestingly, Sheer Cold straight up does not work at stronger level Pokémon. Considering that Chaos is notably stronger, regardless of the end you use, it’s not hard to say he could just break out of it and ignore it completely.

That leaves us to Chaos’ few abilities that Kyogre has no answers to. The Ichikoro Gauge, once charged (that shouldn’t be hard to charge throughout the fight), would instantly knock Kyogre out. If you consider Kyogre’s water absorption sucking up Chaos, do not worry, as he can control Kyogre’s body from inside like a puppeteer! Maybe even shooting a big ass laser can do the job when you put Kyogre freezed in Chaos Bind.

Overall, while Kyogre’s abilities are nothing to joke about, Chaos’ abilities simply overwhelm the blue leviathan. Even if you wanna use Thunder or Sheer Cold as extremely good ways to incap Chaos, Chaos has just as reliable incap/one-shot options at his disposal, accompanied with overall good resistances and other powers.

Tertiary Factors 

As skilled as Chaos is, he is not matching Kyogre here. To simply put, even if he can keep up with Sonic and Knuckles very well for a few times, Kyogre has been constantly fighting many Pokémon for thousands of years (Groundon, mostly). Chaos is an intelligent being, but so is Kyogre, and even if Chaos is thousands of years old as well, he didn’t fight for most of the time, and only went Perfect Chaos to murder an entire Clan not because of skill but sheer power. 

Yeah, there’s not much to talk about here.

Conclusion

Unfortunately for Kyogre, the god of destruction simply shines through in most ways. His superior strength and speed make it hard for Kyogre to damage, his regeneration makes him insanely hard to kill, his resistances and abilities are enough to overwhelm Kyogre’s, and while inferior in skill, it was just enough to knock out the leviathan. After a whale of a chaotic battle, it looks like the Guardian God of the Chao primal-rily took the win.

The winner is Chaos.

Advantages and Disadvantages 

Chaos

"When anger and sadness overflow like a mighty ocean, beware the great calamity."

Advantages:

• Takes the stat trinity with low and high ends

• Electric shields and force fields prevent getting hit with Thunder and do super effective damage to Kyogre

• Better ways of freezing or paralyzing 

• Regeneration makes him insanely hard to put down for good

• Better healing

• Can potentially one-shot anyways with the Ichikoro Gauge

• Can control Kyogre’s body from the inside

• Arguably resists Sheer Cold…

• Let him cook?

Disadvantages:

• …but Sheer Cold could still put him down, potentially

• Less skilled and experienced

• Thunder still would deal significant damage to him, if hit

• Muddy Water can make him lose accuracy

• Water Pulse can make him confused

• Sonic Forces (this dude didn’t even have a boss fight there 😭)

Kyogre

“ *primal whale cry* ”

Advantages:

• Thunder can likely strike Chaos’ brain…

• Sheer Cold could potentially one-shot Chaos…

• Can confuse, decrease speed and make Chaos lose accuracy

• More skilled and experienced

• Kyogre’s natural water absorption could likely help him throughout the fight

• Won The Pokemon: VGC World Championship twice

Disadvantages: 

• Weaker and slower with low and high ends

• …although Chaos’ electric barriers makes this hard to pull off

• …but also has the risk of not working at all due to Chaos’ regen, shields or power

• Chaos Bind leaves Kyogre helpless

• Inferior healing even with Aqua Ring

• Chaos’ electricity would do super effective damage

• 7.8 / 10: Too Much Water

Votes

Team Chaos [10]: (Tru, door-kun, ishi_yuki, Kirbonic Pikmin, Cryotechnics, MomoUra, Saul, TripleCx3, Fenic. V, TheBiteRaptor)

Team Kyogre [3]: (therealcalhoward, MKF4, Why am I here [pity])

Thank You/Next Time

What a way to start the wave. OK bad water joke I already used aside thank you so much for reading. Big thank you to ishi_yuki and door-kun for pretty much doing all of the Chaos stuff while calhoward, MKF4 and Why am I here did all the Kyogre stuff. Also thank you to Cryo for helping with the links and doing all the cool color stuff. Despite the pool of filth this MU usually has around it all these people made this very smooth and I was able to be pretty hands off and take a break after the chaos of last waves finale. Anyway, enough about now. Let's see what's next…

Agent Smith VS Cyn

(The Matrix VS Murder Drones)

The age of the machine is upon us. No one is safe from their grasp and we can't wait to die at their hands. If you want to join you can DM me on Discord @tru2678 or find me in your local VS server.