Arkham Batman VS Insomniac Spider-Man (Rocksteady VS Insomniac)
“Heroes are ordinary people who make themselves extraordinary.” - Gerard Way
Batman: Gotham City’s crime fighter from Rocksteady's Arkham Batman.
VS
Spiderman: The protector of New York from Earth-1048 and Insomniac’s Spider-Man.
Before We Begin
For this specific version of the matchup, we will only be using the Arkham series version of Batman worked on by Rocksteady, and the Earth 1048 Spider-Man series version of Spider-Man worked on by Insomniac. No other versions of Batman or Spider-Man will be utilized outside of arguable scaling for Spider-Man (This will be a BTV section). This means along with the Arkham Batman Games, Batman will be given the Assault on Arkham movie, tie in comics for Arkham Batman and everybody's favorite, Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League. Spider-Man will be given the Insomniac Spider-Man games, his tie in comics and his appearances in several Spider-Man crossover events.
Now like Spider-Man says, we need to be greater together. Which is why we need to give credit to our sources. Credit to G1's Spider-Gwen VS Sakura, Batman VS Iron Man, Respect Arkham Batman, and Respect Insomniac Spider-Man.
Background
Batman
“I am vengeance! I am the night! I am Batman!”
Most of us know the story of Bruce Thomas Wayne, the Arkham verse changed virtually nothing, so we won’t explain much. But things get different when we talk about the Batman. The first time we meet Batman he’s dealing with a mysterious villain known as the Black Mask, an incredibly wealthy man who hired eight different hitmen to kill him. Over the course of the night, dealing with hitmen, Batman figures out that an insane clown known as The Joker is attempting to kill him, having Bane as his personal right-hand-muscle. Things begin to go wrong for Batman, Alfred almost ends up dead, Bane knows his secret identity, and Joker has given him an ultimatum. Kill Bane or Joker will die. Batman ends up using electrical gloves to stop Bane’s heart, fighting a TN-1 amped Bane, who suffers amnesia from the battle. Joker tries to get Batman to kill him, only to get beat up instead.
During all of this, Quincy Sharp states that he wants to reopen Arkham Asylum, which eventually comes true. One night, Batman takes Joker into the asylum, where Joker strikes his plan. He takes over Arkham Asylum, using Harley Quinn to control the island and officer Boles, ready to kill Batman. Batman makes his way around the island, encountering many of his rogues, all ending in a final conflict on a large roof with a titan infected Joker. Batman manages to beat him, saving the day.
It turns out that Quincy Sharp was being manipulated by Hugo Strange, a man who wants to dissect Batman. During a press conference, Hugo Strange’s men come in and capture Batman and put him into Arkham City, revealing that he knows Batman is Bruce Wayne and if Batman tried to stop him, he’d reveal his identity to everyone. You know who else is in Arkham City? Joker. At the end of Arkham Asylum, Joker injected himself with Titan, giving himself a fatal disease. If Batman doesn’t find a cure, Gotham hospitals across the city will all die. Oh, Batman is also poisoned. Now with his priorities changed, Batman goes to Mr. Freeze for a cure, learning that Ra’s Al Ghul’s blood could complete it. After getting this, and having a fight with Freeze over his wife, the cure is stolen by Harley. Batman goes to get it, fighting with Joker until Protocol 10 is activated, a plan to exterminate all crime within Arkham City. Batman climbs up Wonder Tower, finding Hugo Strange. It turns out that Ra’s al Ghul was secretly working with Hugo Strange, killing him for his failures. During the conflict, Joker had kidnapped Batman’s love interest, Talia al Ghul. Batman goes and attempts to stop Joker, only for Talia to stab the clown, revealing Clayface in The Joker’s place. The real Joker shoots Talia and kills her, forcing Batman to fight Clayface, beating the maniac. Now with the cure in hand, Batman drinks it, only to be attacked by Joker and causing the cure to drop. Batman admits that despite everything, he would’ve cured the Joker, causing the Joker to die laughing.
Set nine months after the death of the Joker, Scarecrow sprays a diner with Fear Toxin, telling everyone to get out of Gotham or taste his gas. Everyone, of course, listens. Batman doesn’t, meeting up with GCPD’s own Jim Gordon. Oracle, his daughter, secretly works with Batman to find where Scarecrow is. It turns out that Scarecrow had hired his very own personal army, a mysterious foe known as the Arkham Knight leading them. Batman had tracked them down to ACE chemicals, going and battling, realizing he was trapped. If he didn’t subdue the blast, everyone would die. Only issue? Batman had inhaled Fear Toxin, making a personification of Joker within his mind. During this time, Oracle was kidnapped. Batman begins to figure out Scarecrow’s true plan, to release a weapon known only as the Cloudburst across Arkham. While making his way through Simon Stagg’s airship, Batman inhaled more Fear Toxin, allowing for Joker to take temporary control. After this experience, Batman found Oracle, the lady taking her own life. With no time to recover, Batman has to make his way to Panessa film studio, as Harley was trying to steal the four “Joker-fied.” patients. While Batman did manage to stop Joker’s Blood from reaching most hospitals, four people were infected. After capturing all, one of the patients kills the others before committing suicide, beliving Batman will become the perfect Joker. During this time, The Cloudburst activates, almost giving Joker control over Batman. Bruce chases after the Arkham Knight, only for it to be revealed that Jason Todd was the Arkham Knight, one of the previous Robin’s believed to be dead. After the Cloudburst and Arkham Knight had been delt with, Scarecrow meets with Batman, revealing Oracle’s suicide was a hallucination. During this conflict, Batman managed to save Oracle, only for Robin and Gordon to be kidnapped by Scarecrow. Batman gets captured by Scarecrow, having his identity revealed to everyone, before being injected with Fear Toxin. Joker attempts to take over Batman’s body, only to be locked away, with Batman forcefully injecting Scarecrow with his own toxin. After ensuring Gotham was safe, Batman activates the Knightfall Protocol, faking his own and Alfred’s death. Batman now uses fear toxin, stalking criminals, an illusion in the night. Do you fear? If you do, Batman will be sure to exploit it.
Turns out that this ending wasn’t good enough, as Batman comes back to being a superhero, meeting the Justice League and starting that organization. One of their first encounters is with Brainiac who kidnaps the Justice League, brainwashing them to be evil. The Suicide Squad, consisting of Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Harley Quinn, and King Shark, going around to kill the Justice League. One of these is an evil Batman, who loves to kill people and use fear toxin, trying to exploit the fears of the Suicide Squad. It doesn’t do anything, they beat him, and shoot him in the head. Batman falls.
Maybe he’ll come back as a clone if that theory is true, who knows.
Spider-Man
“Morning guys! Who’s ready for their hot fresh cup of bodily harm?”
With great power comes great responsibility. A life lesson given to many versions of 1 person across the multiverse. This is, of course, Peter Parker, the Spider-Man. This includes the Spider-Man we’re looking at today. In the distant universe of Earth-1048 a young Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider. Instead of killing him or giving him cancer, it gave him the powers of a spider. With this gift Peter decided to start a war on crime as the friendly neighborhood web slinger. Fast forward a few years later and Peter is trying to balance his job as an assistant to Dr. Otto Octavius, while keeping his personal relationships and being a crime fighting vigilante.
Things hit the fan however when New York was thrust into a gang war following the imprisonment of Wilson Fisk. Spidey had to go against plenty of the members of his rogues gallery, including a new enemy in Martin Li, also known as Mr. Negative. After support from MJ however, he was able to take Martin down, only for the muscle degrading Otto Octavius to break him and other enemies out of prison. The second craziest set of days in Peter’s life would begin as he battled the Sinister Six, and eventually defeated his mentor, friend, turned adversary. Otto was locked in prison as New York was saved, but not without notable losses. But with Miles Morales rising up as a new partner in crime (or well, against crime), things were looking up.
This was until Kraven came to New York and began hunting people for sport. He killed countless of Spider-Man’s villains and scared others like Sandman shitless. Kraven proved to be quite the adversary but Spider-Man had an ace up his sleeve, Harry Osborn. More accurately Harry’s cure, The Venom Symbiote which let Spider-Man beat and almost kill Kraven. However, Miles had to step in and stop Spider-Man from killing Kraven as Peter wasn't acting like himself. The Symbiote made Peter angry, egotistical and say things he didn't mean hurting those around him. It also made him go back on his morals which almost cost him everything. In the end Miles snapped him back to reality but it was a close call.
The worst part is that the fight wasn't fully over as Harry took back the Symbiote and got corrupted by it. With the Symbiote Harry turned half of New York into a Symbiote wasteland that required Spider-Man to gain a new suit thanks to Miles and Martian Li. This suit was called the Anti Venom suit and countered the Symbiotes. Despite his direct counter, Peter still had to fight his childhood best friend which was not easy but with the help of Miles and MJ, they would save Harry and New York from the Symbiote at the cost of Harry being put into a coma.
Life is never easy as Spider-Man. You have to make a lot of tough calls and lose a lot of close friends. Earth-1048 Spider-Man may get knocked down, but he will always be the hero we need as he and Miles will make New York greater, together.
Experience/Skill/IQ/Other
Batman
Batman is an incredibly skilled fighter and martial artist. He first started off as a trainee underneath the secret monastery in the mountains of North Korea, traveling to them to finish his journey of training to learn the most deadly Martial Arts. In a short amount of time, that we can assume anyway, he climbed the ranks to learn all about stealth and combat before eventually becoming the Batman. As Batman his skill was unmatched, being able to take down hordes of goons and supervillains like it was nothing, being trained to his physical and mental peak while also being trained in all forms of martial arts. Not even entire gladiator pits worth of people can stand up to his combat ability. He’s been able to beat Talia’s own assassin squad, who are stated to be highly trained female protectors trained from birth to handle their own against hundreds of men. As Ninjas they’re meant to be stealthy, so Batman placing a tracker on one of them mid-counter is rather impressive. The Militia and TYGER aren’t even able to handle him, being able to beat squadrons of them. This is especially impressive as the TYGER guards have studied his techniques and prepped against Batman, while the Militia was trained by former Batman ally Jason Todd. Deathstroke, who is specifically stated to be enhanced physically and a master tactician. lost to Batman in hand to hand combat. An interesting thing to note is that his fighting style changes overtime, something that Azrael noticed while watching him. Batman has even adapted his fighting style mid-fight, such as adapting to the Dollotrons after assessing that they feel zero pain. One of the major examples of Batman's quick-thinking is his fight with Mr. Freeze. Within this battle, Mr. Freeze would constantly change his defenses to fight against Batman forcing him to adapt. Also, his stamina is unreal, being able to fight through the events of Asylum, City, and Knight, each of them taking just a night to complete. Once he fought Grundy for a week, coming back every day, until passing out on the seventh. He can also just take apart an entire gun mid-fight.
Of course it isn’t just hand to hand that gives Batman the advantage in combat, he uses shock and fear to give himself the upper hand within combat when needed. He does this by using Smoke Pellets to distract, control his breathing to hide himself, or take out a specific set of individuals to make one particularly give up. Stealth is perhaps one of his biggest advantages, using it to engage foes when they’re too dangerous or have too many to fight in hand to hand. He often uses this to leave conversations while people are talking, which isn’t cool. It’s also important to note that you cannot sneak up on Batman, he’s been able to sense people through smoke. If you also think that Batman isn’t scary, think again, as he’s made a man piss himself in fear.
Described as having genius intellect and being trained in all aspects of criminology, you’ll find no surprise that Batman's knowledge and eye for detail is insane. He knew the Arkham guards schedule so well that he could figure out that the feed he was watching was looped through that. With a photographic memory, Batman can solve hundards of Riddler Puzzles across the events of the many games, perhaps that’s why he can figure out Riddler’s riddles given to him almost instantly, He’s been able to figure out what happened in crime scenes thanks to re-creations, decipher subliminal messages planted in Azrael’s brain, and figure out what there were two Jokers moments before Joker spills his plan. His intelligence isn’t just linked to his detective skills, as he’s a pretty skilled hacker, able to hack into Riddler’s codes. He’s also been able to make cures for TITAN and Man-Bat. Perhaps one of the most weirdly consistent feats of intelligence is him cosplaying as villains, such as when he went undercover in Joker and Penguins gangs or pretended to be Black Spider to infiltrate the suicide squad.
Spider-Man
Unlike a lot of Spider-Man adaptations, Insomniac’s Peter has already been in the game for a while. When we first meet him, he’s been Spider-Man for 8 years already, and that’s before the events of his games even take place. With those in mind, he’s been doing herowork for nearly a decade, and that has led to a lot of rogues getting in his way. Crime bosses strong enough to throw office desks like footballs, flying old men with razor wings, electrical maniacs, toxin wielding lunatics with bladed tails, master martial artists like Taskmaster, multi-arm scientific geniuses, adaptive killer hunters, possessive goo aliens, you name it, he’s fought it. Despite having no formal training, he’s an expert hand to hand fighter regardless, using his unique acrobatic fighting style to blitz foes.
Spiderman is almost absurdly skilled when it comes to combat. He was considered a top tier threat by Kingpin, a formidable strategist, and he was able to take on all of Sable, which is filled to the brim with highly trained and respected soldiers. This included defeating Silver Sable, an Extraordinary martial artist. Peters also beat the Mercenary Taskmaster while even holding back, which is a crazy feat when you consider Taskmasters ability to completely adapt to and memorize someone's fighting style.
In this universe Peter has also shown himself to be highly intelligent, maybe even more so than the usual Spider-Man. When he was only 15 he managed to craft his signature web shooters entirely by himself. He would only prove himself further when, Immediately after graduating college with a grade A thesis in neurotechnology, he joined Octavious industrious as an assistant. From there he’s shown a high amount of knowledge in almost every STEM field. This includes chemistry, engineering, mathematics, biology, physics, and more. Doctor Octavius himself has even said that Peter “has a talent for guerilla science like no other”. It's not just in statements though, Peter has regularly shown off his immense intellect. Every time spiderman swings, he has to calculate physics and calculus in his head in order to swing properly. Peter has also hacked into Wilson Fisk’s computer to expose his crimes, created a drug to counter tomestones superhuman durability in a very short time frame, solved problems with Oscorp research stations about numerous different scientific fields, quickly created an antidote for Scorpion’s venom while under its effects, and even corrected flaws in Otto's own work. Not to mention, he’s made a lot of tech more advanced than his Web shooters, including a jammer to cause Vulture’s wings to malfunction, suit insulators to counter Electro, sonic weaponry to beat Symbiotes, and every other high tech gadget and suit at his disposal.
Abilities
Batman
Rush Meter
In the Arkham Origins: Blackgate spinoff, Bruce gets access to a Rush Meter that increases as more enemies are defeated. The higher the rush meter, the more damage Batman does. However, if Batman gets hit once, the meter gets reset.
Steadfast Strike
An attack with low damage but it increases Batman's defense each time it is used until Batman increases his defense by 25%.
Pinpoint Accuracy
Batman's attacks can now do critical hits which are more likely to occur with combos.
Escalating Justice
While the attack does low damage It increases Batman's damage per use.
Guarded Stance
A stance that increases Batman's defense at the cost of some of his offense.
Strong Chin
Batman mews so hard he gains a resistance to stuns and has a less chance of being stunned.
Crippling Batarang
Batman throws a batarang capable of preventing the target from making an Enraged attack. The ranked up version makes it so that Batman has a 25% chance to do a critical hit next attack.
Tailored Made
Batman's Batsuits get an increase to how much they modify Batman's health and damage.
Martial Law
Batman does a high damage attack that has a chance to stun targets and does damage over time.
Master Combatant
This ability gives Batman a chance to automatically regain any of his special attacks.
The Dark Knight
An attack that resets the cooldowns on the Batswarm and Health Boost gadgets. Leveling this attack up gives Batman a 25% chance to stun with his next attack.
Wayne Tech Boosts
Wayne Tech Boosts are boosts given to Batman and a bunch of his items. The Wayne Tech Boosts listed here will only be referring to the buffs Batman himself gains from Wayne Tech. Weapon and item related buffs will be under those specific items.
For this example, which comes from the mobile game, One of them gives him a damage boost, one of them reduces damage, one of them recharges his special attacks, and one of them increases XP gained.
Arkham Asylum
Arkham City
Arkham Origins
Arkham Knight
Spider-Man
Wall Crawling
This move is synonymous with Peter Parker as a whole. Like other versions before him, Peter is able to stick to walls and run up them as he pleases.
Spider Sense
The Spidey-Sense is a sort of sixth sense that allows Peter to automatically detect incoming danger. Regardless of whether his other senses can pick it up, the Spidey Sense will automatically alert Peter about incoming attacks, which includes the presence of the attack as well as its direction. This is good for last second dodges against hordes of enemies, but also useful for dealing with sneak attacks.
Focus
Focus is an element Peter builds up overtime. Focus can be used to do extremely powerful finishers at the cost of a meter, and heal himself Peter in a pinch. Focus is gained by dealing damage, and the rate at which Peter accumulates focus increases based on the length of his combos. Peter can fill up to three full meters for use.
Skills
Skills are different upgrades Spider-Man unlocks throughout the game. These skills increase his ability to defend himself, use webs offensively and traverse the city.
Arsenal
Batman
Bat Suit
Ok let’s just get into this. Batman has had many suits over the years, but the most up-to-date version of the batsuit allows for him to use speed and mobility without being restricted while also increasing his tolerance to impact forces. By using tri-weave titanium fibers with flexible liquid armor with light mechanized parts, it allows for Batman to move faster and more agile and allow him to tolerate more G-force. If the suit isn't capable of withstanding an impact, Batman would be wounded, it would compress around the wound and stop it from bleeding. Suits in most Batman variants are usually made of a Strong metal and fiber, and given Batman’s high health, it’s very likely this is the same case. Just like the original suit in comics, it is made of Titanium with slight Kevlar used for the plates, which is used for tanking multiple hits and being mostly bulletproof.Of course if you know where to shoot it makes the suit entirely useless.
His cowl is incredibly impressive, allowing him to contact individuals like Alfred and Oracle from within Arkham Asylum and City. This allows for his allies to keep an eye on Batman whenever he’s in the field, Oracle could tell Batman was dying when Joker’s blood was getting to him. His cowl is also equipped with Night Vision, the ability to zoom in. and the ability to track and scan many different things. From Radio Frequencies to Phone Signals, nothing is too obscure for Batman to track. Not even bomb frequencies are out of the question. His mask can also obscure his identity, blocking his eye-color and masking his voice. Batman was also able to analyze the fighting style of Azrael and compare it to his own. Also, keep your hands off the mask, it packs a mean shock.
The Batsuit can also be upgraded in Batman Arkham Origins: Blackgate. By collecting 4 Armor Reinforcements Batman gains more health. This can happen twice as there are 8 Armor Reinforcements for Batman to collect. In the Batman Arkham Origins mobile game, it’s revealed that Batman has Life Support in his suit able to bring him back to life. Alfred, seemingly, is trying to get a higher pay-grade by making Batman pay with coins for this, the jammy bastard.
Utility Belt
This is what holds all of Batman's insane gadgets. If someone tries to use it the belt will administer an electrical shock.
Batarang
The famous Batman projectile we all know and love. A quick, reliable projectile strong enough to pierce Batman's own Batsuit.
Sonic Batarang
Used as a distraction, the Sonic Baterang creates a loud sound that lures criminals towards it.
Remote Control Batarang
Pretty simple, the Remote Control Baterang is a variation of Baterang that Batman can control for more precise hits. It can conduct electricity, allowing it to power up electronics if a source is nearby. Batman can also weave these past bullets.
Explosive Batarang
A Batarang that looks nearly identical to the Sonic Batarang. My primary objective is to blow up, which it does with flying colors.
Reverse Batarang
When Batman wants to cheese his foes, he’ll throw one of these. This is used by Batman to stun Ra’s al Ghul.
Batscanner
Batman used this to scan across all of New Gotham to find the location of Scarecrow’s fear toxin within ACE chemicals. Batgirl also used this when searching for hostages taken by Joker.
Detective Mode
Detective Mode is Batman's most unique ability. It allows him to see the environment in a whole new way. He can see enemies' positions, which are highlighted in blue, noting things such as how many foes are in one room and their current heart rate while seeing their skeletons. It also notes important objects in the environment such as weapons, different types of opponents, doors, and grapple hooks.
Detective Mode isn't just for analyzing your foes, it can do many other things. Perhaps one of its most notable abilities is being able to analyze and track individuals based on just whiskey vapor, blood, or ash from a pipe. Detective Mode can also track electromagnetic frequencies, help Batman analyze blood types and gas, figure out the trajectory of Deadshot's bullets, use facial recognition technology to identify who works for The Riddler, and scan tanks for weaknesses.
One of the main issues though is that this can be jammed by individuals with backpack jammers, tracked by individuals if left on for too long, or ineffective by those who wore Optic Deflection armor.
Forensic Scanner
The Forensic Scanner is used to project holographic re-creations of crime scenes. By scanning different parts of a crime scene, Batman can essentially look through and find out what happened to someone. Batman also used this to look between skin, muscle, and bone if needed
Batclaw
Your very own grappling hook used to move around, grab items, hang upside down, or grab people. It’s strong enough to pull down a helicopter and hold onto Firefly. You can even use it underwater!
Ultra Batclaw
Known as the strongest, the Ultra Batclaw has three claws instead of the regular one which makes it much stronger. It’s also strong enough to pull Titan Joker down.
Remote Claw
The Remote Claw fires a line between two different points. Batman commonly uses this to create a wire he can grapple onto but he’s also shown being able to pull enemies and deadly items together.
Explosive Gel
By spraying a bat shaped gel onto a nearby wall, floor or ceiling, Batman can detonate a controlled explosion strong enough to KO Titan Joker. Batman can also quickfire this to cause smaller explosions if needed.
Smoke Pellet
Very simply, a Smoke Pellet is an item Batman can throw to the ground to create a large and sudden area of smoke to either escape deadly situations or disorientate a foe within combat.
Grapnel Gun
How do you think Batman travels? He simply points at a ledge, building, etc, and fires a shot which attaches and pulls him up.
Remote Electrical Charge
The Remote Electrical Charge fires an electrical blast which is used to usually activate or deactivate machinery. Batman can also use it on individuals to stun them, being capable of KO’ing Deathstroke.
Line Launcher
The Line Launcher is a grapnel-esque gadget used by the Dark Knight to get across long distances and gaps that cannot be traversed conventionally by other means. Unlike Batman’s other similar Grapnel gadgets, the Line Launcher can only be used to travel horizontally, not vertically (up or down).
Cryptographic Sequencer
Batman's very own personal hacking tool, the Cryptographic Sequencers main function is to hack into nearby computer terminals and doors for Batman to use. He’s used this to disable security gates across Arkham Asylum, rig doors to open, and hack into terminals. He later upgraded this to be-able to include frequencies from radio waves. Anything less than public would need encryption keys, such as TYGER community lines and Penguins personal communications. It does have one weakness, jammers can affect the Sequencer and block it.
Remote Hacking Device
Clearly Batman got tired of his Cryptographic Sequencer as he upgraded it within Arkham Knight to the Remote Hacking Device. It can open doors but not access radio waves. The tradeoff? A much better range, the ability to hack entire airships, blinding technology (like enemy drones) and detonating electrical equipment.
Disruptor
When everyone is using a gun, why don’t you get something that can disable guns? The disruptor has a limited number of shots that get recharged overtime. What can they do? A bunch of things. It can disable guns, weapon boxes, mines, drones, medic packs, Stun batons, scanners, jammers, sentry guns, camouflage in suits, the works. Batman also made a version of this which specifically messed with Mr. Freeze’s gun.
Voice Synthesizer
Stolen from an enemy Militia driver, the Voice Synthesizer allows Batman to copy the voices of those who he is fighting. As long as he calibrates to their voice the limit to this is endless. Batman has copied Harley, Stagg, The Arkham Knight, The Riddler, and Deadshot. This does have many counters though that vary from individual to individual. Smarter foes like The Arkham Knight will switch com-lines so they can’t be heard, while dumber foes like Harley will tell her men to ‘not listen to any command’
Concussion Detonator
An item Batman can attach to enemies that, when detonated, will stun and disorientate those who are caught in the blast radius.
Freeze Blast/Cluster Grenade
Given to him by Mr. Freeze to help him defeat Joker, the Freeze Blast is an item that freezes those hit by it. Enemies who are hit are temporarily incapacitated but can still move their torsos, allowing them to fight back if needed. The blast is cold enough to freeze water solid, which creates platforms for Batman to use or deal damage to the dangerous Clayface, eventually solidifying him with enough time. Batman upgrades this to the Freeze Cluster Grenade which can freeze multiple enemies at once. He can also use it as a Proximity Mine, freezing those who get close.
Gel Launcher
Batman can fire several types of gel out of this launcher.
Shock Gloves
Stolen from the Electrocutioner after Batman one-shot him, the Shock Gloves charge overtime as Batman begins to hit foes more and more. When activated they allow for strong electrical shocks to be disrupted into foes which makes enemies who are armored and/or own shields useless. It’s powerful enough to stop and restart the hearts of individuals which he did to Bane. The one downside is that the gloves can be tracked thanks to its electromagnetic pulse.
Shock Gauntlets
Batman can land quick strikes with his Shock Gauntlets, having a 50 percent chance of causing a critical hit. Achieving eight of these allows for a 25 percent damage buff to Batman’s next attack.
Heavy Gauntlets
These heavy duty gauntlets help Batman hit harder so when the time comes to break some ribs, he can do it with no issue.
Glue Grenade
What people assume is Bat spit, the Glue-Grenade acts similar to the Freeze Blast, temporarily catching foes in an unmovable glue solution.
Scanner
Used by Batman to detect specific spores to make an antidote to the Titan Formula, helped him not get eaten by Killer Croc.
Caltrops
(Cursed image, I know)
Caltrops are sharp objects used as traps by Batman during his training. Enemies will trip and fall if they run over these, making them a useful tool.
Kujiki Bomb
Used as a cloaking device by Bruce Wayne, allowing him to sneak up on people. While inside of the smoke, Bruce can activate a multi-ground takedown.
Shuriken
Imagine Batarangs but Kawaii. That’s all they are.
Bat Swarm
Using an ultrasonic device Batman can unleash a Bat Swarm to continuously damage people.
Health Booster
Batman has a device that heals him on command. It can also remove a random debuff from Batman when used.
Injectors
An injector Batman carries around to inject different toxins when needed. In the panel shown above he uses it to administer a numbing agent.
Syringe Gun
Holds any toxins or antidotes Batman needs.
Batboat
Traveling by sea is always great fun when Batman is involved.
Bat Glider
When Batman feels like being energy efficient but needs to go somewhere he can glide around on his Bat Glider.
Flashbang
Batman owns Flashbangs strong enough to blind Killer Cock for six hours.
Tranquilizer
Tranquilizers that knock out the biggest of men.
Trackers
Batman has employed trackers many times during his fights with individuals. You can probably guess what a tracker does.
Laser
Sometimes you’ve got to cut through some rock.
Gas Mask
A mask that protects Batman from getting gassed.
Gas Grenade
Batman owns a Gas Grenade that burns the lungs and eyes.
Microphone Transmitter
A small device that lets Batman hear from long distances.
Night Vision Binoculars
What do you think Night Vision Binoculars do? If you said, allow Batman to see in the dark, you’re correct.
X-ray Machine
Detects the presence of explosives, toxins and even radioactivity.
Smelling Salts
Wakes someone up if they’re knocked out, used on a Militia member.
Remote Sonar Scanner
Sends out sonar signals to tell Batman where objects and people are.
Illusions
While training Azrael to see if he’d make a successful protector of Gotham, Batman would create multiple different illusions of goons to try and hit him. They’re able to physically interact with Azrael, only disappearing if knocked-out by Azrael, or if Azrael gets hit. Although that last option is a function of the illusions, because Batman wants Azrael to be him.
Electrical Gun
Batman doesn’t use guns? Here’s him firing an electrical weapon towards Deathstroke, like an incredibly enhanced taser.
Batmobile
The most controversial addition within Arkham Knight, the Batmobile is a completely custom made car that Batman keeps making new versions for. Known for its speed, power, and ‘Lethal deterrents’ The weakest version of the Batmobile was described as being armored to resist collisions and small-arm fire, having shield tracking profiles which reduced footprint, being 1.200BHP and 7MPG. In terms of being a car, the Batmobile can travel at high-speeds and use afterburners to reach even faster speeds. Batman is so skilled that he can drive around race-tracks set by The Riddler in under two minutes, manouring it across sideways walls while Riddler is trying to kill him, or dodge incoming blasts from the Cloudburst. A head-on collision might not even favor you as Bane was knocked off of Arkham Asylum when it ran into him. It also protected Batman from the Fear Toxin covering Gotham once inside, although it was notably damaged by the initial blast. It’s important to note that Bruce was able to fix this by removing the Power Cell and placing a new one in; it does need to be done carefully though.
That’s just what it can do as a car, because this thing is described as a tank on wheels by many people who’ve seen it. The cars battle-mode comes with two main features, a 60mm cannon for destroying large targets like tanks, and a riot suppressor used to knock people out. Enough damage to other targets reveal some of the Batmobile's secrets. Firstly is a missile barrage, a feature which locks onto nearby targets and unloads a series of rockets towards them. The next is an EMP, a short-ranged blast meant to divert incoming missiles and drone weaponry. Lastly is the drone virus, which overrides the Friend or Foe identification found in millia drones which makes Batman a friend and everyone else a foe. As the batmobile gets more and more hits the meter will charge up allowing for more powerful abilities. (a level 1 missile will only target one drone while a level 3-4 will target up to ten tanks) Trying to hurt the batmobile? It’ll let out a nonlethal shock to push back and incapacitate foes which can be activated at a distance.
It does come with other features besides these though. Lucius Fox uploaded Sonar into the batmobile, which allows for Bruce to see what’s directly below him, sensitive enough to find long-dead plant roots. It also has a regular X-ray scanner which allows him to see foes through walls, a Winch which allows him to scale surfaces as long as it’s strong enough, essentially letting the Batmobile climb. He can Reverse Engineer power grids to give objects power, dodge within combat, and Batman can jump out of it in emergency situations, or launch himself like it’s a fnaf jumpscare. He can track vehicles, and pop a proximity alarm against those who get too close. Worst part of all? Batman doesn’t even need to be in the car to control it, as long as he’s close enough to the car he can control all of these features remotely. If the car isn’t near Batman he can just summon it to him and he can flip it over if the worst happens.
So yeah, where do I buy one?
Batwing
His other vehicle that’s notable, the Batwing, is a personal aircraft mainly used to deliver a bunch of different items to him whenever needed, being entirely remote controlled by Batman. This doesn’t mean that it can’t be used for other things, as Batman has used it as a distraction in his fight against Firefly to allow him to move closer. It’s also strong enough to carry Killer Cock.
Fear Toxin
Obtained after he defeated Scarecrow, Fear Toxin is an incredibly terrifying drug that can be implied via injection or inhaling the gas, this leads to a bunch of different scenarios. Sometimes the Toxin will just outright kill you, usually caused by so much fear that your body falls into cardiac arrest. More creative uses of the Fear Toxin includes seeing your dead friends and family, messing with auditory and visual senses, and even simulating a game crashing with a mirrored intro sequence of your own death. At its worst Fear Toxin can create seemingly entire other worlds with bottomless pits and a spiraling sky. The most notable example is how Fear Toxin brought The Joker within Batman's subconscious back into his mind thanks to some of his tainted blood being injected into his body. This got so bad that Joker almost took over Batman's mind, making him another host for the clown prince of crime.
You think this would make Batman not want to use it, but in Kill the Justice we see Batman using the fear toxin. It separates the entire squad from each other. creates statues of himself which can pop out and attack large bats, and mess with your mind with what you’re scared of. He even hooked this up to levers to spray more when you pull them. Perhaps the most iconic of these is the large version of himself able to fire laser beams, send large waves to attack and conjure up explosions, This does have a random weakness of a large purple spot to shoot at.
Fear Toxin isn’t perfect though. Batman has managed to break out of them with sheer willpower alone alongside Harley when they ‘died’. Enough exposure to Fear Toxin, or overpowering your fears, will make it ineffective on the target. Harley also states that she could make a counter to the toxin with enough time.
Spider-Man
Spider Suit
Spider-Man has quite the suit to work with. On a basic level it defends Spider-Man from injury while keeping his identity hidden, while also being built to withstand high levels of heat and voltage. However, it has quite a few things it can do with its high tech design. The suits lenses can zoom in on things for better vision and outline technology such as areas that will interfere with Peter's tech and nearby data hubs. The lenses can also be connected with other pieces of technology like a research station to see what they display. Analyzing technology even lets Peter create digital paths to get from place to place. The suit also has an ear piece which can tune into comms and other broadcasts across New York. The ear piece is also capable of tracing subtle sounds such as struggling. The Spider Suit is also stated to have an onboard AI that can tell Spider-Man the general location of something such as a kidnapping victim. Another piece of the suit is the built-in scanner which can scan for civilians, bad guys and the environment. It can even scan for finer details such as the substances within something and how a mechanism works by breaking it down into individual parts before creating a new schematic. The suit can also trace mobile phone signals. Another function of the suit has an investigation mode which can determine how many enemies there are in an area while outlining their location. The suit can also act as a data hub for Spider-Man, downloading schematics and storing information.
Along with the large amount of internal functions it has, The Spider Suit has some more outward capabilities such as deploying Web Wings. The Web Wings act as a way for Spider-Man to glide around New York at high speeds. It also has robotic Spider-Arms that can come out to help take out foes when Spidey needs it. This help comes in the form of many different abilities.
The Spider-Arms abilities can also be upgraded to become even stronger.
Peter has even acquired and created multiple different suits using what he has found from his adventures. All of which have specific abilities he can use in battle. As for what those are…
Suit Powers
Each new suit Peter acquires comes equipped with a Suit Power he can use with his other suits. These are special abilities Peter can activate to grant specific bonuses during combat. He can swap these out whenever, even mid-fight, though each ability does have a recharge time making them not spammable.
Suit Mods
Peter can add on special Suit Mods to get special bonuses before fighting. He can equip three at a time before heading into battle which he can switch on the fly.
Suit Tech
Suit Tech is a type of upgrade Peter can use to upgrade the Spider Suit. These come as upgrades to Health, Damage, Focus and Traversal.
Starting with health, these upgrades make Spider-Man harder to take down.
Next comes upgrades to Spider-Man’s damage output.
Then comes the upgrades to Spider-Man’s Focus Meter.
Last are the upgrades pertaining to Spider-Man’s ability to traverse New York City.
Gadgets
Gadgets are Spider-Man's bread and butter in this universe. Peter's incredible genius has allowed him to make plenty of hi-tech devices suited for handing out his fresh cups of bodily harm. These gadgets are all controlled by Spider-Man and can be turned off by him even after they are activated. Now that you know the basics let's go in depth into each gadget.
Web-Shooters
He's Spider-Man, he shoots webs. He can use them to swing across the city, hang from the ceiling, clog holes, throw things, web up bad guys and disarm them. Another perk of the Web Shooters is that they have 3D printers built into them. These printers have created technology on the fly like the Webline, a tightrope Spider-Man can walk on to sneak around and traverse the area. Finally, The web fluid can also be used to keep certain kinds of bacteria alive.
The Web Shooter gains even more upgrades in Spider-Man 2.
Impact Web
The Impact Web has the same effect as multiple shots from the Web Shooter, except that it fires a more intense projectile, likely with greater momentum. Impact Web webs enemies faster; on most normal-sized enemies, this means being bound instantaneously. Shooting an Impact Web on foes that position themselves by a wall, surface, or ones that are not on their foot, will often result in easy knockout.
Electric Web
Fashioned from Aaron Davis's taser, the Electric Web shooter applies an electric charge on each web shot before firing. This electric charge can be used to power certain electronic conduits and overload technology causing it to shut down.
In combat, when an enemy is tagged with an Electric Web shot, the enemy becomes stunned along with any other enemies within proximity for a limited time. The Electric Web is also one of the tools that can bypass Sable International's energy protection, although it doesn't disable them.
Trip Mine
The Trip Mine gadget fires a small device that attaches to a wall or enemy, which upon detecting an enemy nearby, will hit them with a web and pull them towards one another, causing them to slam together. It is meant primarily for large groups of enemies. The Mine only has a few charges, so players need to be careful where and when they use them.
The Trip Mine can be a viable alternative to the Impact Web, as it can instantly tie an enemy to a wall. This is especially useful if Spider-Man is unable to find a suitable angle to silently take an enemy down.
Web Bomb
Upon detonation, the Web Bomb explodes webs that trap nearby enemies. It is incredibly useful in big fights. Throwing a Web Bomb into large groups of enemies can tie up more than one of them, rendering them unable to fight back – and when enemies are covered in webs, the option to spin them around and launch them into others becomes hugely advantageous.
Concussive Blast
The Concussive Blast emits a powerful sonic wave, causing nearby enemies to tumble backwards with great force. This is ideal for clearing rooftops or scaffolding of enemies, as it can send them flying over the edge, instantly knocking them out of combat.The gadget is also useful in situations where Spider-Man finds himself surrounded by a large number of enemies.
The blast from this gadget also disarms most enemies off their weapons; while they can pick it up later, it gives Peter a lot of room to take them down with greater ease. The disarming effect also applies to Sable units' protective energy generator; this makes said units vulnerable to regular webbing effects even when not catching the disabling effect of their own hacking grenade.
Using the Concussive Blast against hovering jetpack units will only push them away.
Spider Drone
When fighting, Peter can shoot out Spider Drones that shoot electricity at enemies to stun them. He can shoot up to three that will stay in the air.
Suspension Matrix
When deployed, the Suspension Matrix creates a gravity field that affixes enemies into the air, leaving them helpless and allowing easy air combos until the effects wear off.
Upshot
The Upshot fires a barrage of projectiles towards enemies in its radius. These projectiles suspend the targets in the air making them easy to hit.
Web Grabber
The Web Grabber pulls enemies within an area towards itself putting them all in one place. This makes them vulnerable to AoE attacks.
Concussion Burst
Peter can shoot out a powerful and large shockwave at enemies to damage and push them back whenever they get too close.
Ricochet Web
The Ricochet Web bounces between multiple enemies to web them up with ease.
Spider-bots
The Spider Bot is a small, compact robot that Spider-Man controls. Unlike the other Spider Drones, this bot is used more as a support item than to deal damage. It can fire a web line, follow chemical trails with its sensors, hover, shoot a pulse blast to clear debris, leave a locational ping, take photos, isolate waveforms to focus on conversations, and fire an EMP capable of turning off bombs and outlets.
F-R-N-D
Designed by Ganke, these Focused Relay Neighborhood Data-Spots can take message signals and send them to an app on Peter's phone. Peter can pilot and see through these drones as well.
Vaccines
Pete has created a vaccine for a strand of avian flu and obtained a vaccine to cure diseased fish. Not really useful in combat, but hey, shows his science knowledge. Also, fish are cool.
Vulture Jammer
While most of the items Peter finds in his old backpacks mean nothing in a fight. This is due to them usually being outdated and upgraded in his current arsenal or just plain useless in a battle. He does however, reclaim a device used to jam Vulture's wings though it is unclear how it works.
Sonic Burst
A bomb Peter created to deal with Symbiote Nests using Miles' terrible beats. After being armed it will take a few minutes to sync in which it will explode with enough sound to clear a Symbiote Nest. However, the Sonic Burst can be destroyed. It also replaces the Concussion Burst later in Spider-Man 2’s story as it is more effective at countering the Symbiotes.
Special Suits
Batman
XE Suit
Known as the Extreme Environment Batsuit, Batman used this to combat the harsh environments created by Mr. Freeze in Arkham Origins. The suit has built-in thermal technology which allows for him to combat the freeze. The suit has a Honeycomb structure which insulates him against the harsh cold without increasing weight or lowering his speed.
This includes aspects like…
Initiation Suit
While Bruce was learning his skills from the league of assassins, he wore a slightly armored suit. He fought against Lady Shiva during this, beating her.
Beware the Batman
Arkham Origins Blackgate gives Batman a ton of new suits that have a variety of effects. This suit reduces the damage taken from bullets by 50%
Blackest Night
The suit of a walking deadman. This suit makes Batman immune to incoming damage.
Red Son
Comrade Batman is able to regenerate 50% faster.
New 52
Wideman here is able to do 25% more damage.
Batman: One Million
Putting the Bat in Batman, this suit increases damage dealt by 25%.
The Dark Knight Returns
It seems that being a suit about “returning” makes you invulnerable to damage. It also increases damage by 50%.
Earth 2
Get 2 stat increases for the price of ons. Increases damage by 25% and increases regeneration speed by 50%.
1960’s Batman
Adam West is so powerful he takes 25% percent less damage, regenerates 50% faster and deals 50% more damage.
Animated Series
Arkham City Lockdown also has a plethora of suits that make changes to Batman's stats. Boosts Batman's damage at a slight cost to his health.
The Dark Knight Returns Batman (Lockdown)
It really did return huh? Increases Batman's health and damage at a slight cost to speed.
Batman Beyond
Being Terry honestly sucks if this is his stat spread. Loses some damage and health for a minor speed increase.
1970s Batman
Causes a massive speed buff but loses some health and a lot of damage.
Batman Earth One
Increases Batman's damage by a lot but his speed takes a hit.
Bruce Wayne
Batman becomes Man. Unfortunately Man isn't very powerful or durable, just fast-ish.
Batman, Inc.
Batman becomes TANKY as hell but he takes a small decrease to his damage.
Batman Year One
This suit turns Batman to a glass cannon lowering his health and speed for a damage boost.
Long Halloween
Reduces poison damage by 25 percent
Red Son (Origins Mobile)
Batman takes 20 percent less damage when stunned and takes 15 percent less damage from electricity.
Arkham Origins MK2
This focuses on boosting his physical traits.
Arkham Origins MK3
This focuses on boosting his physical traits.
Arkham Origins MK4
This focuses on boosting his physical traits.
Roundtable
This suit increases his armor and damage capabilities.
Earth Two
Reduces ballistic damage by 25 percent.
Liberty Files
Batman’s Nazi punching suit, it increases his experience gained by 15 percent and gives a 100 percent increase to basic attacks.
Noel
Perhaps protecting him from Cold Temperatures based on the description, this suit increases his armor and damage capabilities.
Thrillkiller
Reduces damage from critical hits by 20 percent and bleed damage by 15 percent.
New 52 (Origins Mobile)
Reduces damage by 20 percent and fire damage by 15 percent.
Dark Knight
The Kitchen Sink Zombie of the blog, reduces damage from everything by 15% including things like Stun, Bleed, Ballistic, Fire, and Electricity.
Batman Beyond (Origins Mobile)
Increases Batman’s Special Attacks cooldowns by 20 percent.
Injustice
As you can see, this suit increases damage to stunned enemies by 50 percent and he deals 50 percent increased critical hit damage.
Blackest Night (Mobile)
If Batman is about to die, he’ll gain a boost of Health.
Spider-Man
Anti Ock Suit
When faced with the challenge that was Doc Ock and his ridiculously powerful robot arms, Peter received encouragement from MJ that led him to design this suit. It is made of the same super strong metal as Ock’s arms, which previously could overpower and take out Peter with just a few hits. With said hits being able to be shrugged off instead when Peter used this suit to fight Ock. It also grants Peter an ability named Resupply that generates ammo for the gadgets.
Anti Venom Suit
Even after the Symbiote left Peter a part of it stayed within his mind. After a deep dive conducted by Mr. Negative and Miles, they were able to bring out this small piece of the Symbiote by charging it with Mr. Negative’s powers. This gave Peter the Anti Venom Suit. This suit gives Peter the power of a Symbiote without giving up control of his body. As the name implies, the Anti Venom suit does more damage to Symbiotes. The suit also allows Peter to use the abilities of the original Symbiote, along with some new abilities given to him when Peter acquired the suit.
Spider-Man can also upgrade some of his Anti-Venom attacks.
Batman
Feats
Defeated Jonkler, Rizzler, (and solved all those damn fucking trophies), Slopcrow, Bone, Hugo Normal, Diddler, Freakyfly, Killer Mog, Killer Cock, Kano etc…
Defeated every assassin sent after him in one night by the Joker.
Stopped the riots at Arkham Asylum caused by the Joker.
Stopped Arkham City, Protocol 10, and the Joker.
Defeated Scarecrow and the Joker (in his mind).
Successfully defeated most of his rogues gallery and faked his death.
Joined the Justice League.
Bagged Talia, Catwomen, Vicki Vale, Poison Ivy, and more.
Inspired by an entire brain rot subreddit.
Attack Potency
Beat up a Great White Shark (shown above)
Broke Deathstroke's staff (Hey buddy, not cool)
Smashed Hush into a desk so hard it shattered
Durability
Shot by Jim Gordon (seen above)
Takes blows from thugs, superhumans, etc
Definitely should have died when he was hit by a Pipe in the back of the head out of suit
Took an explosion capable of blowing up a building (1.74 Tons of TNT)
Speed
Resistances
Fear Toxin: Blocks out Scarecrow’s fear gas and gained back control over his mind when Joker had reached full capacity with his infection
Mind Manipulation: Batman’s been able to fight against the hypnosis/mind control of the Mad Hatter on multiple different occasions as well as overcame The Joker’s disease
Spider-Man
Feats
Defeated Kingpin, Shocker, Vulture, Electro, Rhino, Scorpion, Mr. Negative, Doctor Octavius, Black Cat, Sandman, Kraven, and Venom
Saved New York multiple times
Overcame the influence of the Venom Symbiote
Stopped the Symbiote expansion from taking over the world
Bagged MJ, and likely would have bagged Black Cat too
Doesn’t have a bad game in his lineup yet (unlike Batman)
Attack Potency
Can knock people out with a single combo (shown above)
Durability
Took an INSANE jumping from the Sinister 6 (shown above)
How the fuck did he survive this with only a few broken ribs
Tanked being slammed and thrown through walls by Wilson Fisk
Survived the Velocity Suit exploding while wearing it
Took a close range explosion while fighting Scorpion (0.02361-0.07322 Tons of TNT)
Took a blast from Electro which destroyed a smokestack (3.65 Tons of TNT)
Survived the release of stored energy from his Velocity Suit, which had absorbed numerous blows from a speedster who had accelerated beyond 1 million mph (1.8 Kilotons of TNT.
this is a massive low-ball only accounting for one blow and that she still getting faster after that point
Speed
Reacted to attacks from Electro, who shoots blasts of lightning (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Moved in-tandem with particles in a particle accelerator (0.63)
Resistances
Electricity: Peter’s suit is naturally insulated, which is meant to help him deal with electricity spamming villains like Electro.
Mind Manipulation, Emotional Manipulation, and Corruption: Spider-Man was able to break through Mr. Negative’s corruption, which controls minds and brings out a person’s negative emotions to override logical thinking. When initially affected, Peter proceeded to have an entire boss fight within his own mind in the span of a second before bouncing back to reality and continuing to fight Mr. Negative.
Scaling
Batman
The Bat Family
Batman scaling to the Batfamily should be no surprise, he trained most of them, teaching them to be amazingly great fighters. Oh, he also fucking murdered Nightwing.
A young Jason could dodge bullets from a Joker mech
Jason is in the middle of this massive explosion that destroyed a building (1.89 - 226.52 Tons of TNT)
Jason can keep up with Deathstroke relatively early into his career.
While Jason is captured by Joker, villains beat him up for six months straight.
Robin beats robot versions of Croc and Bane.
Robin can dodge bullets
The Suicide Squad and The Rogues
Batman is well known for his impressive rogues gallery. From Bane to the Riddler he has fought many foes of many different skill sets and triumphed over all of them with his superior skill and fighting ability. However, Batman also tends to run into the Suicide Squad. The Suicide Squad is a team formed by Amanda Waller, otherwise known by others as “The Wall”. They are shown to carry out high risk missions to get commuted prison sentences. The squad has changed quite a fair bit over more and more DC media, but the main Suicide Squad for Arkhamverse would be the one from Kill the justice league, consisting of Harley Quinn, Captain Boomerang, King Shark, Deadshot, Mrs. Freeze, and of course the Joker.
Joker survived a large helicopter explosion (0.0017 Tons of TNT)
Firefly endures this explosion (among several others)
Members of the Suicide Squad can survive the explosion of large mines made by Green Lantern
A malfunctioning Cryo Machine (presumably) created this large Iceberg and caused ice around the city
Mr. Freeze was at the center of an explosion by the machine that caused the ice around Gotham (3.23 Tons of TNT)
Poison Ivy
Batman has fought against Poison Ivy on different occasions, the most apparent being his boss-fight in Batman Arkham Asylum where he beat her.
The same large plant broke some windows in the Greenhouse.
Presumably shook all of Arkham Island (15.18 Tons of TNT) (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Poison Ivy absorbs all the Fear Toxin throughout Gotham, although this does kill her (1.26 - 53.75 Tons of TNT) (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
The Justice League (Debatable)
The Justice League is an iconic group in the DC comics. Alongside the caped Crusader, there is also The Flash, Superman, Cyborg, Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Batman would realistically be the weakest, as he’s the only one without any superpowers, though he does have his superhuman traits. Some specific scaling is debatable however, which will be discussed later.
For feats of each character, we’ll be looking at Kill the Justice League. Batman would downscale again since he doesn’t have the powers the rest of his team have. However, he was able to knock out and keep pace with the Suicide Squad from this game who beat all of the Justice League.
The Flash can create a large tornado in around three seconds
Flash moved fast enough to burst the sound barrier (Mach 1)
Flash was stated to be able to run at Mach 2
In this same statement Lex Luthor says Flash can run so fast he could open a hole in the fabric of time (Immeasurable)
Green Lantern's ring, while being used by King Shark, makes a shark construct capable of breaking Brainiac’s barrier
This barrier had seemingly been impervious to Amanda Waller’s nuke (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Superman caught the same nuke before it could hit Brainiac's ship
Superman was even able to rotate the planet during his boss fight (45.87 Ronnatons of TNT)
This feat also shows Superman flying upwards, potentially going to the sun and back (124.81c)
Spider-Man
Miles Morales (Earth-1048)
The Insomniac version of Miles Morales. While Miles has plenty of powers that Peter would kill for, stat wise Peter is shown to be Miles’ equal throughout Spider-Man 2, and of course is the one who trained him on how to use his powers in the first place. Scaling here is pretty clear cut.
Survives being thrown across New York by Sandman
Absorbed the energy of a Nuform reactor. Miles then survived the resulting explosion which would have been a blast that could vaporize Harlem (55.5 Megatons of TNT)
The Rogues
Peter has fought against a large list of adversaries, so it shouldn’t come as any surprise that he is comparable in stats to all of them. He has fought and won against a Vulture and Electro team up, a Scorpion and Rhino team up, a Mr. Negative smacking away Doc Ock, a Kraven killing Venom, and more to show that he is above the average villain of the week.
Rhino can lift and chuck a tank
The Shocker could push a large safe door with a shockwave
Shocker survived a large structure falling on top of him
Shocker can even create large shockwaves while running across New York
Sandman can create large sand tornadoes
Sandman was also able to create a large sandstorm (15.39 Kilotons of TNT)
The Venom Symbiote
How many months?
Venom in the Insomniac verse is different to the ones in others like the comics or Sony. Whilst those versions had Venom’s host be Eddie Brock, the Insomniac version of this character made its host Harry Osborn. The symbiote has the abilities you would expect one to have, namely the super strength, but this one also has the ability to create a hivemind with the symbiote, which was used to cover the world. This version of Venom is able to be on par with Peter Parker and Miles Morales, along with defeating and killing Kraven.
Black Suit Spider-Man was able to cover an arena with the Symbiote within a few seconds
Venom was able to cover most of New York in the Venom Symbiote (863.25 Tons of TNT)
This spread could be much larger as shown here (1.53 Teratons - 18.94 Exatons of TNT) (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Venom would spread his Symbiote infection across the planet in a short amount of time if he was not stopped (17.16 - 18.86 Yottatons of TNT) (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Individual symbiotes that wound up forming the Symbiote Dragons can withstand the pressure of being in Klyntar’s core to contain Knull (97,823,952,201.5 Kilograms)
Symbiote Dragons could fly across space from Klyntar to Earth over the span of several months (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Other Spider-People (Debatable)
As with every major iteration of Spider-Man it seems, Insomniac’s Peter Parker has been roped into several Spider-Verse events and fought alongside the likes of his 616 self, 1610/616 Miles Morales, Spider-Gwen, Superior Spider-Man, Peni Parker, etc… against the same threats, in this case the Inheritors and a particularly powerful variant of The Spot.
(Apologies in advance for how far to the right the feats get)
616 Peter performed feats such as:
Tank a blast from the Scepter of the Manticore, whose energy could power the Sandman, which requires 1 exajoule of energy (239 Megatons of TNT)
Survived being hit with enough electromagnetic energy to destroy a city (10 Megatons of TNT)
Spider-Senses are stated to move at “zero to light-speed in no time”
Stomped a group of villains that included Speed Demon and Lightmaster. While treated as slower, Spider-Man is fast enough to tag these two.
Lightmaster can transform into and travel as light.
Speed Demon is repeatedly stated to be faster than Quicksilver (Note: While guides repeatedly place Speed Demon at Subsonic to Supersonic, his scaling above Quicksilver in this period would scale him over feats like Pietro catching Cap’s shield in microsecond timeframes and dodging lasers from… the Living Laser)
Survived being right next to a massive explosion created by the Ultimate Nullifier (13.082 Kilotons of TNT)
While already heavily injured, he managed to survive Colossus’ and Magik’s release of the Phoenix Force, which destroyed the mountain top they were on (15.11 Megatons of TNT)
1610/616 Miles Morales has performed such feats as:
Defeating a Symbiote-controlled Kamala Khan
Kamala can casually restrain Dark Beast with one hand. In a later issue, Dark Beast could overpower and suffocate Quake even while she was using her powers directly on him.
Being shown to be comparable to and fought the villains of 1610 Peter Parker, who has:
Fought off all of the Ultimates while hosting the Venom symbiote
1610 Captain America and Thor have fought and harmed 1610 Hulk, who can generate magnitude 8.9 earthquakes (337.6 Megatons of TNT)
1610 Thor is treated as equal to Earth-31916 Hyperion, who once generated an impact visible from space (1 - 20.6 Teratons of TNT) (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
This Hyperion then went on to briefly fight Earth-712 Hyperion
1610 Wolverine also fought and briefly knocked out 712 Hyperion
Ultimate Peter himself and one of his villains, Beetle, fought Venom before it transferred over to him
Ultimate Peter has wrestled evenly with 1610 Captain America
Ultimate Peter has survived being crushed by 1610 Hulk
Ultimate Peter and his villains such as Green Goblin can keep up with Human Torch in combat
All of the Ultimate Fantastic Four can keep up with Psycho-Man’s guard, who should be similar in speed to the Silver Surfer since they were all created by Psycho-Man, and Ultimate Silver Surfer could travel from Juptier to Earth's atmosphere in a very short time (2.7-4.95c)
Earth-12041 Spider-Man (Cartoon Ultimate Spider-Man) has…
Fought and could overpower Phalanx units evolved from Hulk’s tissue, with earlier units being able to pierce Hulk’s skin and cause him pain
Electro becoming one with all of Earth’s electric systems would be this much energy (193.71 Kilotons of TNT)
Fought hand-to-hand alongside Hawkeye against The Beetle and trade blows with him
Was strong enough to restrain a simulation of Juggernaut stated to be “just as capable” as the original for his team to defeat it in just a few hits, fighting the real Juggernaut in the next episode and surviving being crushed by him. Juggernaut in this episode also withstood blasts from Iron Man
Fought back against and took hits from Swarm, who could damage and overpower Iron Man armors
While turned into a toddler, took multiple hits from a Norn Stone amped Destroyer, with toddler Thor being able to trade numerous blows with it
A similarly amped Destroyer linked to the Hellhorn was more powerful than the combined efforts of Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye, Falcon, and Black Widow all together. It’s implied Thor and the Avengers "smashed" the Destroyer before in a past encounter as they are all already familiar with it besides Falcon
Fought the Collector alongside Hulk and survived a blast that could incapacitate him
He was also able to pull out A-Bomb from the Symbiote while it was draining him and after it had already drained She-Hulk and Skaar (7:39)
Later in the episode, the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. were able to shake NYC with a joint strike (155.69 Tons of TNT)
Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. fought a sentient ship that, while shattered, had all of its individual parts intact and immediately put itself back together from an explosion that shook the Moon (15:47) (13.58 Gigatons of TNT)
Hulk and Red Hulk were also directly beneath the epicenter and were totally unharmed
Should scale to all members of the Avengers (Debatable, see Before the Verdict), with all Avengers being roughly comparable to one another as even “low-tier” members like Black Widow and Hawkeye can take direct hits from an Odin Force amped Mangog and push him back
Falcon and Thor could disperse enough energy to wipe out Manhattan (51.32 Megatons of TNT individually)
Iron Man could withstand an extended beating from Hyperion, with Captain America being able to consistently stagger him. Thor and Hulk initially are overwhelmed against him, but later in the episode ultimately knock him out and in later episodes Hulk can match Hyperion physically while Thor outright outmatches him
Hyperion could destroy a massive meteor with his heat vision (95.157 Kilotons of TNT up to 2.012 Exatons of TNT) (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Hulk could knock back and harm Galactus and withstand multiple attacks from him. It’s later confirmed that Hulk was holding back and intentionally threw the fight
A hungry Galactus could survive a planet exploding beneath him (1.62 Gigatons of TNT)
Ben Reilly is frequently stated to move as suddenly as summer lightning, move within the span of a heartbeat, and can land a blow on Quicksilver in close range.
Spider-Punk, can effortlessly dodge lasers from his world's Kang (these lasers traveling in straight lines, reflecting across reflective surfaces, and demonstrating diffusion)
Variants of villains from the ‘60s Spider-Man cartoon have been fought by multiple Spider-People, usually getting one-shotted and are non-lethal to the point that their Spider-Senses aren’t triggered off by them
This version of Peter Parker could dodge lightning from Bolton, who can fire lightning bolts from Mars to Earth (74.67c)
Mayday survived a nuclear explosion that, while initially leaving her hospitalized, left her body intact and recovered quickly in about a day (108.24 Tons of TNT)
Spider-Rex survived being hit by the meteor that granted him his spider powers (21.78 Tons of TNT)
Miguel O’Hara, who has:
Survived being blasted by weaponry meant for the likes of Hulk 2099
Hulk 2099 has tanked a large explosion visible from the outskirts of Los Angeles (16.732 Kilotons of TNT)
Hulk 2099 has also tanked a gamma bomb that devastated Los Angeles (181.52 Megatons to 8.07 Gigatons of TNT) (Debatable, See Before the Verdict)
Had an extended battle with and could severely wound Chernobyl, who after this went on to survive his power source’s massive explosion (45.55 Teratons of TNT up to 380.19 Petatons of TNT) (Debatable, See Before the Verdict)
Marvel/Capcom Spider-Man, who was murdered in one punch by Morlun. For comparison, a dying 616 Peter Parker managed to take multiple blows and impressed Morlun and is even capable of fighting him for 12 hours straight without rest
The cast of MvC1 should be comparable to one another, with the likes of Zangief turning into his mecha form being able to cause an explosion visible from space (10.68 Teratons of TNT)
The Battery, who is composed of hundreds to thousands of Electros from across the multiverse, could generate enough energy to extend a column of electricity out into space (42.47 to 424.7 Teratons of TNT individually)
Silver/Bronze Age Heroes (Debatable)
In the 1960s, Marvel released two specific power ranking charts comparing various heroes to Spider-Man in two of his annuals. The first in 1964 with The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1 famously placing the friendly neighborhood superhero as the fourth strongest hero in Marvel at the time, and the second in 1981 with The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #15 giving a broader comparison between multiple Marvel heroes to Spider-Man. While the typical handbooks are notoriously unreliable for actual scaling, these charts come straight from Spider-Man annuals and thus you can debatably argue this as a form of direct Word of God and an extension of 616 Pete’s scaling.
That being said we acknowledge these kinds of bonus content and trivia aren’t hard canon like the main stories themselves and don’t have any weight for scaling the characters past the dates these annuals were published (so no scaling 60s Iron Man’s Model I to Arno Stark in the Godkiller or something like that). The ‘81 power chart also made a distinction between raw physical strength and other applications of their power like Ghost Rider with his Hellfire and the Silver Surfer with Power Cosmic BS, which will be taken into account. Also goes without saying that not every being in the Marvel universe is included in these power comparisons, so Spider-Man is not getting scaled to a random troll that can grapple Thor.
Oh and as Spider-Woman rightfully points out, Pete was probably just glazing himself in the ‘81 power chart. So don’t take this bit too seriously. Really, this section was made last minute just for fun.
Iron Man’s Models 1-3 could do the fff.
[Model 1] Could dig out from the center of the Earth in a short timeframe with some clippers (6.82 Kilotons of TNT)
[Model 2] Survived being crushed by Black Widow’s Anti-Grav Gun, which can move mountains (1.63 Kilotons of TNT - 56.62 Megatons of TNT)
[Model 3] Fight and harm The Unicorn, who is unharmed by 1,000 Tons of TNT
Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Corsair, and Tigra are fine after tanking an explosion that shakes Manhattan down to its very foundation, with it being heard and felt throughout the entire New York Metropolitan area (225.19 Kilotons of TNT)
Colossus could beat down Juggernaut, who is typically presented as invulnerable to damage from most of the X-Men such as Storm, who can create city-wiping hurricanes (164.55 Kilotons of TNT)
With the Silver Surfer’s powers, Doctor Doom could increase his physical strength to 1 ton per square inch
Shortly after, Doom survived the explosive release of the Power Cosmic (72.866 Megatons of TNT)
The Surfer’s energy reserves are restored by consuming energy, from which he gets from converting the mass of small objects (88.43 Megatons of TNT and 70.88 Megatons of TNT)
Note: Interestingly Spider-Man does have a fight with the Silver Surfer in this period. Here, they’re portrayed as physically comparable when the Surfer doesn’t have his energy field around him, is without his board, and is emotionally unwell, which all make him much weaker as a result at this point in his history
She-Hulk fought and defeated the Man-Elephant, whose suit can withstand thousands of pounds of pressure per square inch
Iron Fist could fight and take numerous blows from Radion, whose power is measured in the hundreds of megatons
Iron Fist survived the destruction of an entire universe (real) (not an outlier) (beats Goku)
Beast, Wolverine, and Colossus lifted A GOLDEN TREE (13.816 Tons individually)
Weaknesses
Batman
Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League.
I kid, I kid, but this game does prove that Batman can have his mind manipulated by someone with those powers. He’s also only human, able to get tired and knocked out by simple pipe swings to the back of the head and a single bullet from the Arkham Knight (in the right spot). He can also be snuck up upon and overwhelmed, Harley managed to lure him into a trap after Joker’s death. Involving his loved ones can cause him to be irrational, like him seeing Oracle shoot herself, despite the illusion Joker moving the gun proving it was a fear construct.
Spider-Man
Just like many other versions of the character, Peter is not invincible. Regardless of how many wounds he can keep fighting through, he will be knocked unconscious or killed were he to take too much damage. If weapon supplies are also not unlimited, as all his Web Devices besides his basic Web-Shooters lack automatic refill. His gadgets can also be disabled if broken. Likewise, his Suit Powers need recharge time. His Spidey-Sense, while useful for detecting incoming attacks, is also not an automatic defense, as he still needs to react to whatever’s incoming to dodge or block.
Cool Art
Sprite Art
By Gator Loki
Trailer
Here's an awesome trailer for the match by Seba.
Script
There is also an amazing fight script written by Saulgoodmas with all the cool stuff this match has.
Before We Decide
Poison Ivy’s Feats
Poison Ivy is a potentially controversial aspect of this blog, Poison Ivy’s feats could be potentially contentious due to certain aspects. Let’s start with the first feat of her shaking the entire island, which uh, we don’t actually know if she shook the entire island it’s really just an assumption at best. It’s completely possible, but there isn’t much proof, it wouldn’t matter to the final verdict though. The Toxin feat, sucking it all up, is more valid than one might think. One might assume Ivy doesn’t scale to the toxin, given the fact she dies from absorbing the amount of toxin, right? Well actually no, she only dies because of the toxic nature of Fear Toxin. When the Cloudburst was active, Batman directly states that it actively amplifies the effects of Fear Toxin, so her absorbing all of said toxin only puts all of those dangerous chemicals into her body. She could’ve survived the sucking outside of that.
TLDR: Ivy hit the vape too hard.
Waller’s Nuke Scaling
One of the feats within Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League is related not to the Squad themselves, but their leader Amanda Waller. For context, King Shark, using the power of the Green Lantern Ring (Which they had previously taken hits from, which will be discussed in the next section) breaks through a section of the barrier around Brainiac's ship. Which seemingly could not be broken through with a nuclear bomb.
Open and shut case right? Outside of the interesting discussion that is scaling the Suicide Squad to the Justice League there are two very hard to ignore holes that make this scaling fishy.
One is that nowhere is it stated or shown that the nuke that Amada Waller had could not break through the barrier. So why didn't Waller use it on the barrier? Simple, she only has one nuke and using it on the barrier would be a waste as she would then be lacking anyway to destroy Brainiac's ship without it. The nuke would also likely not break through both the barrier and the ship.
The other glaring issue is that the game makes it very clear this nuke would have killed the Suicide Squad. This would make it very weird as why would the Suicide Squad scale to a nuke that would have killed them even if they were a good bit away. It just doesn't make sense with what's established within the scene.
Due to these issues scaling the Suicide Squad to the nuke, and by proxy Batman is just very hard to do and doesn't make a lot of sense with whats presented in the game.
The Justice League (Are their Feats Valid and does Batman Scale?)
Prior to Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League, it was unclear whether or not the Justice League were even in the Arkham-verse. That game showed us that Bruce went on to join the Justice League after he left Gotham after the events of Arkham Knight.
Before we discuss whether Batman scales to his friends at the Justice League, we need to discuss two of their feats.
Flash’s Immeasurable Statements
So in our favorite game ever created Lex states that the Flash could “move with such impossible speed it tears a hole in the fabric of time itself”. This is somewhat backed up by Flash’s statement about being a god who runs faster than time.
So what's the issue? Well there are a few problems. For starters, this statement from Lex is clearly meant to be a hypothetical talking about the theoretical effects of Flash's lower and upper limits. Lex is just pondering the question of what WOULD happen if Flash could run at those speeds. It would also explain how we could have the jump from Flash moving Mach 2 in the statement, to then talk about Immeasurable speeds. So it's hard to take the time breaking part of the statement seriously.
Flash’s own statement is also very shaky seeing how this version of the Flash is more Ezra Miller than Berry Allan. This version of Flash is super egotistical and would 100% hype himself up infront of the Suicide Squad. That's a commonality between all the brainiac controlled Justice League. So it's also very hard to take this egotistical Flash’s statements seriously.
Even if this impossible was something the Flash could run at, his speed was nerfed in his fight against the Suicide Squad which could serve as a potential reason he could not access this insane speed, and at best could create tornados and break the sound barrier. Much closer to Lex’s low end estimates.
To summarize, Neither statement can be taken as objective. Lex is talking in a hypothetical low end-high end that only ever has the lower end shown. Meanwhile Flash is likely hyping himself up for the sake of intimidating the squad and fueling his ego as once again, this speed is never shown and all of the Justice League have become egotistical. Even if this speed estimate was somehow correct there's a high chance the Flash was needed to a speed far below his highest so the Suicide Squad and thus Batman wouldn't scale.
Did Superman Fly to the Sun?
In the scene that we will discuss in a moment Superman flies off earth very quickly during his boss fight. Many people assume that he flew to the sun before landing on earth. However, this doesn't line up with what was shown.
In the scene we see Superman fly into the sky before landing backdoor on earth. Immediately we have no proof Superman flew to the sun and back, just that he flew upwards. Sure we see some particles and statements about him absorbing solar energy to counter the effects of Gold K, but that's that thing. Superman only gets these statements and the visuals of the energy after he lands. If Superman has actually went to the sun he would have landed with these effects and more immediate statements about how the solar energy has countered the Gold K. Superman didn't have to go to the sun to start getting this power boost, all he needed was to get closer to it before changing the time of day so he started getting a sustained boost from the sun.
To put it simply, if Superman had actually flown to the sun the power boost would have been stated to be much more immediate and Superman would not have started to absorb solar energy particle effects after the time change. What's most likely to have happened if Superman flew up to gain a small amount of power before hitting the earth so hard it's rotation changed. Not that Superman flew all the way to the sun to get a boost that he only received after landing.
Now to explain how Bruce could scale to the more solid feats it's pretty simple. He can keep up with the Suicide Squad, who match and fight off other Justice League members like Flash and Green Lantern using specific strategies. But regardless, they keep up with them.
However, one elephant remains in the room. The Man of Steel, Superman. The big deal here is Superman having a feat in his bossfight where he alters the planet’s rotation. Whether or not this is scaled to is a big deal and something with debate, so let’s separate arguments for and against scaling Batman to Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League Superman.
For Scaling to Superman
Scaling to the Justice League and in particular Superman may seem a tad absurd, however some believe there is enough evidence to substantiate it for the Squad’s physicals within KTJL.
First of all, it’s important to note that the Squad, while they may take a lot of damage from Clark, are still not being one-shotted by him within this fight, especially given that the Clark within this fight is also heavily weakened when performing the feat. While yes, they rely on gold kryptonite, the Squad has primarily used bullets in the past - Superman is quite famously impervious to piercing weapons, and the Squad are not characters who rely on melee weapons in game (despite how dumb this is in King Shark and Harley’s cases but whatever). As a result, them using gold kryptonite makes perfect sense - they both downscale him heavily and he has a resistance to their weapon type even if they weren’t many layers of downscaling from this feat - which Clark does midway through the fight, mind you, and very casually at that. In addition, Brainiac is able to mimic Clark, and this version of Superman wouldn’t have the shitton of gold kryptonite weakening the one in the boss has, and the squad still can take hits from him just fine.
Story wise, this is admittedly kinda dumb and contradictory, and we concede on that. However, there are multiple instances thanks to the versions of Brainiac as well as how important this fight is gameplay wise and the signs point to heavy, heavy downscaling being probably fine. Not only that, but the upgrades/amps throughout the game are canonical, as Hack (the character) is manipulating your structure.
Against Scaling to Superman
Scaling Batman to the Man of Steel runs into a variety of issues. For starters, it is portrayed consistently within the Arkham series that despite seeming practically super human, Bruce is still 100% human. He can get tired, he can be knocked out or killed by bullets or falls, and anyone with any sort of superhuman strength like Grundy or the Titan drug enhanced Joker. If you were to argue any sort of scaling to Superman, you would be saying that a heavy hit from Batman could produce Ronnatons of TNT. Even a thousandth of the energy required for Superman to rotate the planet would be more than enough to blow said planet up if the energy was directed properly. If you told any Batman writer ever that a non-superhuman version of Batman could compare to planet busters, they would most likely laugh or look at you like you are crazy. Scaling to levels of power this high are also awkward considering the Suicide Squad were going to die to a nuclear bomb (though if you want to nitpick, you can say this is because of the heat and/or radiation).
Though of course this is a more subjective topic, akin to saying a feat doesn’t work simply because it is an outlier. But remember, there are a variety of issues. The main problem with scaling Batman to Kill the Justice League’s Superman is that the game makes a point that fellow non-superhuman characters in the form of the Suicide Squad are also incapable of comparing to the Man of Steel. Their entire plan for harming him relies on using Golden Kryptonite. Captain Boomerang states that they’re going to shove Gold Kryptonite bullets up his ass, he himself uses Golden Kryptonite boomerangs that make Superman bleed, and whenever Superman does hit them they take massive damage despite the fact they taped themselves in Golden Kryptonite to weaken the blows.
It is clear the intention from the writers of the game is that the Suicide Squad could not have done anything to Superman without specifically using Golden Kryptonite weapons. This is consistent with other bosses like Green Lantern, where they have to use Yellow Lantern tech to weaken his will enough to hurt him. There are other contradicting cases as well, such as the team accepting they’re going to die in a nuclear explosion only for Superman to catch and fly away with the bomb, easily dealing with a problem the Squad deemed hopeless.
This leaves one last avenue for scaling, being the big boss of the Suicide Squad game itself, Brainiac. In the squad’s fights with him, at points he has mimicked the abilities of Superman himself, yet has remained beatable. So, clear cut scaling right? Still no. First off, Brainiac copying Superman’s Kryptonian physiology does not mean he has much solar energy absorbed within himself immediately after the copying. Second off, Luthor states that this maneuver seemed to be more of an intimidation move than specifically a large power boost. Third off, after Brainiac does this, the Squad quickly go back to using their Golden Kryptonite weapons to counter, showing their normal weapons’ inefficiency just like against Superman. And fourth and finally, if the squad did scale to Superman without weakening him because of the Brainiac fight, then what was the point of making so many counter measures for the Justice League in the first place? It narratively would make zero sense if they suddenly did not need a counter for a Superman level threat when they did previously.
To summarize the problems, scaling Batman to Superman is illogical due to a plethora of narrative issues. It does not make sense for Batman to be a planet buster considering the feats performed by both himself and those comparable to him, the characters who fought Superman used a specific counter to his physiology both offensively and defensively, and Brainiac having Superman level power all of a sudden is both inconsistent and countered by Golden Kryptonite just like with Superman anyways. The scaling does not work whatsoever.
WHAT THE FUCK IS KANO DOING HERE!?!?
What do I say about this? Kano somehow made his way outside of Mortal Kombat and into the streets of Gotham, only to be beat-up by Batman, and sent running back to Shao Kahn. Do I even have to justify why this isn’t canon to both verse? If it was, Batman would look like a fucking asshole not taking part in the Mortal Kombat competitions. When Raiden is looking for his champions, can you tell me he isn’t picking Batman? Are you telling me that Batman would rather fight random ass clowns every week than defend the entire world? Did Superman get a day off? Not only is the canon of Batman Arkham City Lockdown incredibly dubious because Batman Arkham City takes place over one night, so when did Batman have the time to fight all of his rogues again, including Kano. This is 2011 Kano, he doesn’t scale to Multi-MK or whatever it is now. This Kano isn’t even canon, you actually fight Deathstroke instead, this is a special easter egg by activating a challenge.
Electro's “Lightning”
Another blog, another day of talking about cloud-to-ground lightning. For those who are unaware, a lot of lightning dodging feats are being called into question within the VS community due to a lack of cloud to ground/cloud to ground comparison. While in the previous blog we have played devil's advocate, here we cannot.
For context Electro has a statement in his biography which states he shoots blasts of lightning. This would be much faster than the presumed regular electricity he would be shooting. However, the problem is that there is no way to compare Electro’s blasts to cloud to ground lightning meaning the blasts likely aren't comparable to real lightning. There are no cloud to ground feats to compare it to and no already established narrative substation that would point to the attacks being the speed of lightning. It would make far more sense if ELECTRO was firing regular electricity. A huge problem with non cloud to ground feats is a lack of substance as lightning can just be used as another word for electricity. This one off statement from Electro’s bio shows this exact problem in spades as there is no reason to assume he is shooting actual lightning. It also doesn't line up with Electro’s powerset as he gains power from electrical sources and not cloud based lightning.
In summary, due to a lack of cloud to ground comparison or narrative substation, Electro’s blasts are much more likely to be average electricity than blasts of naturally occurring lightning.
Should Peter Scale to Other Spider-Men? (And are their Best Feats Valid?)
This may be weird to say considering the rules of the match-up, but yes. He has shown up in a canon Spider-Verse event where he interacted with characters like the 616 (main universe in the Marvel comics) version of Miles Morales. It is also likely not some alternate version of Insomniac Spider-Man due to the Spider-Man 2 prequel comic referencing the events of Spider-geddon. This prequel comic was made in partnership with Insomniac and narrative director for Insomniac, Jon Paquette.
Now, you may immediately be pointing to Spider-Man 2's Spider-Bot sidequest. This side quest is supposed to set up Insomniac Spider-Man being in Across the Spider-Verse and promote the movie. In this side quest Insomniac Spider-Man says “Wait- who's Miguel?” which wouldn't make sense if he was part of Spider-geddon right? Well no, Insomniac Spider-Man never meets Miguel in the comic so he wouldn't have a reason to know who Miguel was. So this side quest would not contradict the plot of Insomniac Spider-Man, Spider-Geddon or Spider-Verse in any way.
Insomniac Spider-Man has also appeared in the Spider-Man Unlimited Infinity comics. Once again it is specified to be Earth 1048 Spider-Man and, due to a convenient mind wipe, can easily be slotted into the canon of the Insomniac games as Spider-Man wouldn't remember what happened during the comics events. This comic was also co-written by Christos Gage who wrote the first Insomniac Spider-Man game (and had also helped on Spider-geddon) which adds even more validity to the crossover.
Now that we have established the crossover events are canon to the Insomniac games, how does Earth 1048's Spider-Man stack up with the rest of the Spider Society?
Immediately we can point to two main sources of potential Spider-People scaling. Insomniac fights with Superior Spider-Man in Spider-Geddon and regular 616 Spider-Man during the events Unlimited Infinity. This is also along with just being narratively on par with them during the events of the comics like the Spot fight in Unlimited Infinity.
While the scaling to Superior Spider-Man is weird as Otto was clearly not trying to fight and took very minimal damage you can still argue the point of him keeping up narratively though it is debatable. Meanwhile the scaling through Unlimited Infinity is much more solid as the fight shows Insomniac being more enraged and doing more solid damage to 616 Spider-Man. Once again you can also argue the narrative point as the two are shown to be similar in the fight against Spot and Insomniac keeps up in the fight against the Inheritors, only strengthening the scaling.
Also as we were making this blog, Insomniac Venom had his own little misadventure in the 616 during the first issue of Venomverse: Reborn, where Knull himself transports Harry/Venom, fails to recruit him, and makes him fight a Symbiote Dragon which he disposes of pretty easily. With these dragons being practically everywhere throughout this event and with the dozens of heroes from the 616 (and even Spider-Gwen) having fought these dragons head on, Insomniac scaling back to Earth-616 should be fine
The Ultimate Scaling Chain
As mentioned in the scaling section for alternate Spider-People, Insomniac’s participation in Spider-Geddon and interactions with 616’s Peter Parker and participation in Spider-Geddon gives him an avenue to scale to 1610/616 Miles Morales, and thus the rest of the Ultimate universe itself. This is significant as, for whatever reason, many Ultimate universe characters are treated as more relative to one another than they are in the 616 reality, namely 1610-Captain America. This version of the Cap is strong enough to literally wrestle with and draw blood from 1610-Hulk, take hits from 1610-Thor, catch hits from and knock down 1610 Valkyrie, take hits from and shrug off the Nerd Hulk, and shrug off a hit from Abomination and then proceed to defeat a super soldier physically comparable to him. Any encounter with 1610-Hulk is especially notable since this Hulk is incredibly brutal and sadistic, having zero regard for civilian safety and is a literal cannibal. So even if Cap isn’t presented as being as strong as 1610-Hulk, it’s not a big leap to downscale him from the grey goliath given this Hulk rarely holds back.
Now normally this wouldn’t be so bad on its own. The Ultimate universe doesn’t have a wide catalog of cosmic scale feats like the 616 does, or at least not without tech, magic, or cosmic macguffins that no one really scales to. The consistent feats demonstrated by characters in this reality typically cap at Mountain level via Hulk generating earthquakes (a feat that Thor also replicates) and the Fantastic Four reacting to the Silver Searcher who can fly at FTL speeds without his board. This is all consistent with a lot of the upper-ends of 616 Pete’s scaling, so what’s the issue? Well just like with the Spider-Verse, things start to get very messy once we involve multiverse-crossover scaling.
To start with a mentioned example above, Thor fights a version of Hyperion tough enough to generate at least a Teraton worth of energy after ramming into the North Pole and later fights Earth-712 Hyperion. You could argue that perhaps we just don’t scale the Ultimate universe’s upper tiers to “street” characters, but another issue arises when, in the same storyline, 1610’s Wolverine takes him on by himself and appears to have briefly knocked 712-Hyperion out. The same Wolverine who was enhanced in an attempt to recreate a soldier on the level of Steve Rogers and is… explicitly weaker than Hulk to say the least.
There is an explanation you could make for Hyperion being weakened at least as, due to a very complicated plot involving 1610 Reed Richards sending a weird organism to an alternate reality, the Squadron Supreme's powers aren't working effectively after jumping into 1610 and Reed’s flesh plant emitted a form of radiation that made Hyperion ill in his own universe and could've killed him over time. But both this Hyperion and 1610-Wolverine scrambling with 712-Hyperion? That’s a different story. While 712 Hyperion has his powers halved upon being transported away from his universe, that’s still ½ of the same power that is stated to be nearly equal to 616 Gladiator and exerts planet-pulverizing force when grappling against him, as well as lets him fight in nanosecond timeframes.
There are also other instances of scaling over to 616 herald tiers, such as Ultimate Iron-Man fighting 616-Captain Marvel, Ultimate and 616-Unworthy Thor duking it out, and Ultimate Cap and America Chavez going at it. The big one however is 616-Volstagg claiming Ultimate Thor’s Mjolnir and becoming the “War Thor” where he surprised Enchantress with his power, overpowered Ulik the Troll with his bare hands, clashed with Unworthy Thor, fought, drew blood, and took hits from Jane Foster Thor, and survived a prolonged beating from Mangog. Ultimate Thor’s Mjolnir giving one comparable power to 616 Thor, along with the numerous smaller encounters between 1610 and 616 characters, would retroactively give a lot of characters from the Ultimate universe your typical “herald tier” scaling.
So what does this all mean when it comes to scaling back to Spider-Man? Well obviously he’s not scaling to any 616 herald tiers any time soon. It’d be a massive outlier to do so. But at the same time it’s hard to really ignore the likes of Ultimate Cap and Wolverine taking on opponents on the caliber of their Hulk and Thor, and not every instance can be explained via “they were holding back”. From a meta standpoint, the Ultimate universe was mostly grounded until crossover events and the build-up to Secret Wars hit. Another argument is that all other examples besides 1610-Thor and his Mjolnir involve the 616 heroes holding back against the 1610 heroes. And to be fair, none of the 616 characters were fighting to kill in any of those situations. Blue Marvel even 1-shots Ultimate Hulk to demonstrate the power gap. Meanwhile 1610-Thor had been removed from some time from his universe and had his own misadventures in Secret Wars while the Ultimates were just dead, so you could argue his strength progressed along and thus nothing the War Thor does would scale back to 1610’s heroes.
And lastly we might just have to call PIS for all these instances, as there’s really no good reason why Spider-Man is hanging with Hulk and Thor physically, as at the end of the day he and other “street” tiers are still presented as weaker than the top tiers, even if guys like Cap can get the occasional good hit in. It’s not hard to argue that surviving the occasional blow is just exaggeration or PIS on the part of the writers, especially as the Ultimate universe shifted from a more isolated, grounded setting to being more interconnected with the multiverse at large, essentially being buffed for crossover’s sake.
Ultimately (hehe) though, there’s no hard statement or evidence that 1610 Thor ended up surpassing all his teammates during Secret Wars and no real way to measure how serious the 616 heroes (+712’s Squadron Supreme) were against the 1610 Ultimates. You could, if you want, buy into 1610 heroes just flat out scaling to 616 heralds, but in the opinions of the researchers it creates too many holes when trying to wrap 616 Peter into this without creating a weird scaling loop (616 Spidey <<<< 616 Heralds ≈ Ultimates ≈ 1610 Peter ≈ Miles ≈ 616 Peter…), unless you already buy into 616 Pete being herald tier in which case… good for you I guess.
Ignoring any of the links back to the 616 reality, scaling back to only Hyperion’s teraton feat is also in contention due to the numerous factors limiting his power. The feat itself is very casual, making it difficult to determine whether or not Hyperion is capable of it again even in his weakened state. On the flip side, the presence of another Hyperion not as weakened and yet not dominating the battlefield would suggest everyone else in the battle (or at least everyone he’s fighting) around him aren’t far off in power, though only if you assume he and his team also aren’t disoriented and holding back.
Tl;dr - In the researchers’ opinion we don’t see the scaling chain to reach herald tier via the Ultimates as valid to use without logical inconsistencies springing up. Similarly, Hyperion’s state when he battles the Ultimates isn't ideal compared to when he performed his Teraton feat, and there’s simply no way to determine if he can replicate it by the time the Squadron Supreme fights the Ultimates.
The Other Ultimate Scaling Chain
In Spider-Verse Team-Up #2, the then 1610-Miles Morales partnered up with Earth-12041’s Peter Parker, the Pete from the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, to recruit the 60’s animated Spider-Man to fight against the Inheritors. As they’re treated relative to one another in the brief crossover, it stood to reason that we could scale cartoon USM’s Peter to the rest of the main participants of the Spider-Verse event.
Now there were a few considerations we had going into this, chiefly that we weren’t going to use any feats or scaling from USM that occurred after the comics’ Spider-Verse event, with this extending to the other shows it was sharing a continuity with that were airing concurrently, Avengers Assemble and Agents of S.M.A.S.H. As to why? Well we simply couldn’t place the exact point in time the Spider-Verse event occurred for USM cartoon Peter, as there is no mention of it in the show nor does his appearance in Team-Up provide any clues as to what point in his timeline has he been plucked out of. It also becomes tricky when accounting for Spider-People getting their memories wiped simply from crossing the timestream after these events, as was the case with Superior Spider-Man. Cartoon USM also has its first Spider-Verse event occur a few months after the comics’ event concludes where Peter is seemingly exposed to the multiverse for the first time, which could imply that the comic event occurs at a later point but again there’s no solid point in time we could pinpoint to and Marvel has a habit of making sure characters from ongoing properties conveniently forget any crossover events.
There is also the issue of retroactive scaling. Even if we did decide to scale to use an end of series USM Peter, it would be disingenuous regardless for the simple fact that a lot of the bigger feats he can be scaled to (namely from Avengers Assemble) just did not occur at the time of the OG Spider-Verse event. Perhaps if we had more explicit confirmation that USM Spidey joined in later in his timeline then this point wouldn’t be so relevant, but we don’t and so, after much discussion, the team has decided we’d only be using feats and scaling from the ff.:
Ultimate Spider-Man seasons 1 & 2
Avengers Assemble season 1
Hulk and The Agents of S.M.A.S.H. season 1
Any episodes airing in concurrence with the comic Spider-Verse event was decided to be too close and all concluded after the event was done anyways, and in the case of the latter two shows Spider-Man only appeared after he made his appearance in Team-Up which would’ve led to retroactive scaling. It should also be noted that Doom possessing the Destroyer in Avengers Assemble is the first time anyone has done so in a long time, which would mean Loki’s possession of it in Ultimate Spider-Man places at least everything from USM S2 as at least concurrent with AA S1, and as USM S2 ep 14 leads directly into Agents of S.M.A.S.H., explaining why Hulk has increased intelligence in that show, we assumed that AA S1, USM S2, and AoS S1 all occurred roughly at the same time, if not shortly after one another in the aforementioned order.
Also it goes without saying that this universe is clearly a separate continuity from Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes as despite the EMH-style flashbacks from Avengers Assemble, certain things such as Luke Cage and Iron Fist being adults in EMH to being teens in USM or Falcon being a newbie in AA despite having appeared and operated as Falcon in EMH are glaring contradictions (made worse when Marvel’s Spider-Man becomes the new canon Spider-Man show later in the series… what a mess).
Next order of business is justifying the scaling. Throughout USM seasons 1 and 2, Spider-Man crosses over with almost all the main Avengers from Assemble (Black Widow and Falcon appearing in S3). While he is somewhat depicted as weaker than most of the individual members, he does ultimately (hehe) end up fighting the same opponents as them in the same episode such as the Phalanx in USM S1 ep 19, Swarm in USM S2 ep 11, the Destroyer in USM S2 ep 12, and Arcade’s drones in USM S2 ep 20. More blatantly he’s been punched into the ground by a Venom-ized Red Hulk (who had absorbed the gamma energies of She-Hulk, Skaar, and A-Bomb by that point) in Agents of S.M.A.S.H. S1 ep 14 and walked it off. Even just scaling to Hawkeye in USM S2 ep 5 in their h2h fight against Beetle should be enough to reasonably downscale Pete from Avengers Assemble high level threats like Odin Force amped Mangog, who Black Widow and Hawkeye can take direct hits from. Hell Widow herself blasted directly by Odin earlier in that episode and she could physically harm M.O.D.O.K. in S1 ep 21, so even the “low-tiers” of the Avengers aren’t far off from their heaviest hitters. Captain America in the same episode, who should be close to Spider-Man’s range, is strong enough to go toe-to-toe with Attuma, who was shown to be Hulk/Thor’s level in an earlier episode, and get hit directly by him, and even brought Red Skull in an Iron Man suit down to his knees earlier. So all-in-all, Spider-Man absolutely scales/downscales from most feats in Avengers Assemble.
Now to discuss the feats themselves. Electro’s worldwide feat and the Falcon & Thor feat are fairly uncontroversial given the scale of other Spider-People’s feats and scaling (including Insomniac’s himself), leaving us with the real big feats from Avengers Assemble: Captain America surviving a missile meant to wipe out Nevada, Galactus surviving a planet’s destruction, and Hyperion cutting up an Earth-killer meteor.
Starting with Cap’s feat in S1 ep 21, it is fairly direct. We see in Tony’s suit that two cosmic-amped missiles were aimed towards California and Nevada, and given we can see what looks to be a casino under the missile Cap, Hulk, and Falcon went after we can assume this is the Nevada missile, which comes out to 11.83 Teratons of TNT. While this is well and great and all, Cap expressly states that the only reason he survives this is because of his shield, which no one in AA S1 is able to damage except for Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube, who is expressly stronger than everyone in the Avengers and Cabal. So we can’t really scale this back to Spidey.
Next is Galactus surviving the destruction of an alien planet, which has been calc’ed elsewhere at 6.418 Yottatons of TNT. However, most people tend to look over that Galactus was on the surface of the planet when this occurred. Due to his distance from the epicenter and accounting for Galactus’ surface area, the energy Galactus actually withstands comes out to “just” 1.62 Gigatons of TNT. As mentioned before, Hulk while holding back is still able to put up a decent fight against Galactus and thus Peter downscales.
Now last and certainly not least, Hyperion’s meteor feat. This one is the most complicated to discuss as in the titular Avengers Assemble episode, the meteor that Hyperion dices into cubes is supposedly an “Earth-killer”. Now an “Earth-killer” can mean anything from an Island level meteor that would send large chunks of debris flying across the planet and ruin the weather to where life can’t be sustained up to just an outright planet-busting meteor. “Why don’t you just measure or figure out the size of the meteor and calculate that yourselves then?” you might ask, but therein lies the issue: There are three, wildly differing ends to the meteor’s size: JARVIS’ visual, Captain America’s Grand Canyon statement, and its actual visible size. Someone on VSBW has calc’d all three different ends, with it ranging from Town to Multi-Continental depending on the size you buy into. So what size did we buy into?
First off, the JARVIS end just wasn’t usable. It’s so wildly above both the visible and the Grand Canyon sizes, not to mention this meteor would be larger than the Moon. JARVIS’ projections also aren’t really reliable since as shown in S1 ep 22 where Galactus’ ship is highlighted to be comparable to a sizable chunk of the planet, but in the actual episode itself and its later appearance in Agents of S.M.A.S.H. his ship is clearly nowhere near as big. Certainly not visible from space.
Now it’s just between the Grand Canyon and visible ends. The Grand Canyon end would absolutely meet the criteria for “Earth-killer” many times over, given that the meteor that caused the Chicxulub impact was around 10-15 kilometers and even a 1 kilometer meteor has a good chance of wiping out our civilization. Even using just the width of the canyon would meet the criteria for the AA meteor to exceed these sizes. However this has its own issue in that not only is there a big discrepancy between the ~130 meter visible end and the canyon ends, but its only real support is Captain America’s off-hand comment. At 12.728 Trillion cubic meters worth of stone cubes based on the GC low-end from the above calc. For reference, Lake Superior, the largest freshwater lake in the world with a volume of 12,100 cubic kilometers, would be filled up and then some by the cubes. The entire State of New York would be covered in layers of these cubes if it were really Grand Canyon-sized, which it obviously isn’t.
Now that leaves the visible end. Now the biggest issue with this one is simply its size. At about 272 meters in diameter, it’s certainly no “Earth-killer”. It might devastate the New York area, but civilization as a whole would be fine. And… yeah that’s about it. The two higher ends don’t work as they’re completely unrealistic, rely on shaky assumptions, and don’t line up with what we see in the show, but what we do see isn’t remotely the threat we’re led to believe it is. Of course it should be bigger or at least moving much faster (btw this meteor moves abysmally slow), but without making assumptions we just kinda have to stick with what’s on screen. Thus the 95.157 Kiloton to 250.304 Megaton ends are what we’re sticking with, depending on if you think Hyperion stopped the meteor first or are only counting his v. frag of the meteor.
So yeah this meteor is a fraud. Rip.
But wait! There’s one more feat to talk about: Nova tanking the Dark Matter Cannon. In Season 2 episode 18, Spider-Man, Nova, and the Guardians of The Galaxy take on Korvac to keep him from destroying the Earth with a Dark Matter Cannon. Rocket states that this cannon would turn the Earth inside out and later Nova tanks this beam head on and pushes it back to hit Korvac’s ship. So, clear cut planetary feat right? Well… not really. When Nova manages to push the beam back towards the ship, there’s an initial, relatively small explosion before it’s stated by Drax that the ship is breaking apart. Then Spider-Man and the Guardians have enough time to run back to their ship and fly out of the blast radius before Korvac’s ship explodes.
If this were a straight-forward planet-busting beam, you’d think it would’ve just annihilated Korvac’s ship the instant it was deflected back. Instead there’s enough time for our heroes to run away while it breaks down. Given that what this dark matter beam was meant to do was “turn the Earth inside out” (btw irl dark matter, as we presently know it, wouldn’t do this), it’s more likely that the dark matter was going to have some kind of interaction with normal matter on Earth, hence explaining why it didn’t delete Korvac’s ship instantly and broke it down over some short, but still unspecified time between the jump-cuts. So sadly, still no planetary scaling for this Spidey. Sad.
MvC Scaling
In the opening page of Spider-Verse #2, the Inheritor Morlun seemingly kills a certain video-game version of Spider-Man in a single punch. For anyone even vaguely familiar with the fighting game scene, one specific version of Spider-Man should come to mind when thinking about Spidey in an arcade fighting game: the Marvel/Capcom games. Starting with the 1993 beat’em up Punisher arcade game, the Marvel/Capcom series’ most famous entries are the Marvel vs Capcom games wherein heroes and villains from all across the Marvel universe battle with characters from different Capcom franchises.
But hey, you probably already know all that so let’s get to the juicy bits: How do we know that this specific Spider-Man that Morlun murdered is Marvel/Capcom’s Spider-Man? Well for one all the moves he shouts out are his own moves from MvC1 and, more explicitly, Dan Slott, Spider-Verse’s writer, explicitly said that this was supposed to be Marvel/Capcom's Peter and that the wall-crawler’s appearance in later games is actually a clone (OG tweet if you follow him). So yeah, quite clear-cut, and only a more recent-ish storyline would see all the Spider-Totems he devoured free thanks to Silk.
But the problem isn’t about whether or not this Spidey was from Marvel vs Capcom, but specifically up to what point do we scale him to. If you pay attention closely, this whole interaction is seen through an arcade cabinet, which is important as the Marvel/Capcom arcade games up to that point only extended to MvC2. There are no official arcade ports/versions of MvC3/UMvC3 onwards, ergo at most we can assume this is Spidey by the events of MvC2. And on top of all that, the canonicity of games past MvC2 as all being part of one single continuity are questionable at best. Unlike all the past games where there was seemingly no question that Marvel and Capcom characters simply shared the same world, MvC3 has the subtitle of “Fate of Two Worlds” and Infinite would later carry the tradition with the premise being that Ultron-Sigma needed to fuse both worlds together with Infinity Stones and not that they all already exist on the same Earth. A lot of UMvC3 endings also reflect this idea of two separate worlds only now being conjoined. So precedent is there for Pre-MvC3 and Post-MvC3 continuities as existing separately, and thus we aren’t using anything Post-MvC3 for scaling.
And so aside from the aforementioned Zangief feat back at the scaling section, we’d also like to quickly address Marvel Super Heroes wherein multiple Marvel characters combat Thanos armed with the Infinity Gauntlet, ala the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline. Several character endings with the Gauntlets involve some pretty crazy cosmic feats, such as Magneto creating a moon, Captain America creating a black hole, and Shuma-Gorath growing to cover interplanetary distances. Both Doctor Doom and Blackheart’s endings cover the Infinity Gauntlet allowing for control over the whole universe, and Thanos himself ascends and becomes one with the universe. Since whoever you play as is capable of beating Thanos with the Gauntlet, one would assume that all the playable characters in the game (including Spider-Man) are thus cosmic tier, right? Well… no.
For starters, according to the Official Sega Saturn Magazine #23, canonically all the playable characters banded together as one strike force to stop Thanos and that Thanos has intentionally stripped the Infinity Gems of most of their power just to challenge himself. In fact in Thanos’ own arcade mode it’s revealed he made a clone to challenge himself without the gems. Add all these factors in with the core game mechanic of being able to take Infinity Gems from your opponent by hitting them hard enough and there’s no reason as to why any of the characters should scale to the full power of the Gauntlet as it's shown in the many character endings.
Recap: We are using feats only up to MvC2 as it matches with the arcade seen in Spider-Verse #2, as well as the fact that MvC3 is seemingly set in a different continuity. No one should truly scale to the Infinity Gauntlet due to Thanos’ intentional nerfs on himself.
Are we good? Now to discuss Zangief. Inherently there’s nothing wrong with the feat. Zangief kinda just does it, and while Mecha Zangief isn’t his own character in MvC1 like in Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter, Zangief does transform into it as part of his moveset. So… yeah. This is valid. Can’t really say anything against it other than it's one of the higher feats by a mile without more debatable factors.
Hulk 2099 Has a Bad Day
As mentioned in Miguel’s scaling section, he’s survived being hit by plasma weaponry made to combat the Hulk, specifically the Hulk of his time period, John Eisenhart. There isn’t really any direct issue with scaling Miguel to John this way as Hulk is definitively killed by firing squad using older plasma weaponry in 2099 A.D. Apocalypse to this more recent issue. The real issue is whether we can scale Miguel to Hulk 2099’s greatest feat of surviving the gamma bomb that destroyed Los Angeles, as there are several details that are left ambiguous.
First and foremost is that out of the ruins of Los Angeles, a mutated Hulk 2099 emerges in the last page of his run. This would imply that he may not necessarily have needed to withstand all of the energy of the blast, but straight-up absorbed it and had it make him stronger, so we can’t really attribute how much of the bomb he tanked head on without the amp. This is even substantiated when another gamma mutate, the Anti-Hulk, who was just next to the gamma bomb alongside Hulk 2099, was presumably killed by the explosion, lending credence to the idea that base Hulk 2099 couldn’t take such a nuke head on and only survived due to absorbing energy and mutating.
However in 2099 A.D. Apocalypse, which happens not long after the ending of Hulk 2099’s run, Hulk looks to have reverted back to his normal form. And that poses an even bigger question, did Hulk really lose all that gamma energy in that short amount of time, or did the writers of the Apocalypse event just forget or not know about Hulk’s transformation? It wouldn’t be the first time after all different batches of writers and artists simply didn’t communicate in Marvel’s offices or pay attention to continuity. Not to mention Hulk 2099 has never had a stated issue of losing gained gamma power, so it doesn’t make any sense for Hulk to lose such an amp like this in a relatively short time frame. Hell, a theory even holds that this is the Anti-Hulk we’re seeing and not John Eisenhart, hence why he doesn’t match the mutated look John’s Hulk form has.
Miguel scaling to this feat entirely depends on what you buy into for Hulk 2099’s status by 2099 Apocalypse. It’s either:
Hulk lost the amp in-between the end of his run and the event (doesn’t scale)
Editorial oversight and Hulk is meant to still be amped (scales)
This may be the Anti-Hulk (scales)
All-in-all, the ambiguity of Hulk 2099’s status isn’t exactly clear in his execution scene. Most likely it is just writer/editor oversight for Hulk’s design as 2099 A.D. Apocalypse really served to gun down and execute all the heroes of 2099’s Earth whose books were getting canceled all in unglorified ways (thanks, Warren Ellis), but we’re never gonna get a proper answer to this question due to the destruction of the original 2099 timeline (Earth-928) and its replacement timeline of Earth-2099 (with a new Miguel O’Hara and everything while OG Miguel is with his wife and son in 616, ‘cause comics).
Chernobyl's Meltdown
Another debatable 2099 feat, but for a different reason. So in Spider-Man 2099 Annual #1, Miguel finds himself fighting with a reawakened super soldier from the Cold War and ends up piercing through whatever power source was around him, causing it to go critical and threatening to destroy everything within a 1,000 km radius. Chernobyl then decides to sacrifice himself by flying off into the atmosphere, allowing it to detonate safely above Nueva York. At the very end of the issue, it’s revealed Chernobyl survived the explosion without any major injury, and thus Miguel would logically scale to the yield of the explosion given how a weakened Chernobyl without control over the energy in his exoskeleton came out of its detonation unscathed. And we can’t assume he just removed it because it’s literally part of his skin, which he still has at the end of the issue.
The issue comes in the method of the calc. Given his name is Chernobyl and he is an elite USSR supersoldier from the Cold War, the initial assumption would be to calc the explosion as a nuclear one. And with how wide spanning this explosion is compared to Earth’s size, it would yield an insane 45.55 Teratons of TNT. But the devil is in the details. While he’s named Chernobyl, it’s repeatedly stated that this man entered stasis between 130 to 135 years ago from 2099, meaning 1969 up to 1964, predating the infamous power plant accident, the construction of the plant, and the plans to construct a nuclear power plant. So, at least from an in-universe perspective, it would’ve been weird to name someone Chernobyl after a power plant that had yet to be conceived of. Additionally Chernobyl’s power source is never explicitly stated to be nuclear, and there is more implication that it’s somehow powered by biomass. And thus we came up with a high-end assuming an electrical explosion, which came out to between 380.19 Petatons of TNT.
In the end there’s no evidence to say one interpretation is more valid than the other. After all, Chernobyl regardless is likely named after the city itself in-universe and the USSR already had nuclear power plants by that time anyway so the association to nuclear power for the audience would make sense. And it’s not hard to believe the writer of this story just didn’t know the exact dates of certain events and picked a timeframe that was smack in the middle of the Cold War. And as per our calc guy for this feat (thank you, Normal!), it is just more straightforward to calc this as an explosion, hence we lean towards the Teraton end.
Iron Man Scaling
One often popular method to scale Spider-Man quite higher than the usual City to Island level ends is scaling to none other than the Armored Avenger, as the two have exchanged blows every now and then over the decades. However oftentimes this is misleading or without context, chief of all being that Iron Man’s stats are variable depending on the output of the power source. This goes as far back into his first issues into the Silver Age where the suit running out of power would let it be vulnerable to damage from characters that normally wouldn’t be able to hurt him, such as Captain America, or where Tony can intentionally hold back, again allowing Cap-tier characters to physically take him on only to stomp them as soon as he gets serious. This then extends to instances where characters like Spider-Man fight someone armed with just pieces of an Iron Man armor, as those pieces literally wouldn’t scale to the full output or durability they would have if they were attached to the rest of the suit.
Also as we’ve mentioned before, retroactively scaling Pete to a modern Iron Man feat just because it’s done with an older suit is just really iffy. For one, not long after his debut Tony would demonstrate his ingenuity by adapting and upgrading in response to villains beating him the first time around, or just to improve his efficiency as with the Model 0/1, which itself has been modified throughout the years. Heck his signature repulsor tech wasn’t even a part of his original suit as he originally relied on air pressure jets to fly around and only added repulsor tech much later as the last we see of this suit by the time he developed the Model 2 he still didn’t have repulsor tech. So it’d be disingenuous to scale what an old suit can do more recently to much earlier appearances.
So while it’s not impossible to scale Pete to an Iron Man suit, context is very important, such as in what era the fight took place in, the state of the suit, and whether Tony or whoever is wearing it has reason to hold back, which disqualifies a good majority of encounters between the two. The same point generally goes for… pretty much every supposed herald tier encounter Pete or any of the Spider-People have. Context is king in these kinds of analysis. For a more extensive breakdown of why a lot of the more well-known Spider-Man & herald tier interactions don’t work for scaling under scrutiny, check out this thread here.
Symbiote Dragons Space Travel
One of the most popular arguments for MFTL Spider-People, the symbiote dragons using their ability of flight were able to fly from Klyntar directly to Earth. At the point of their arrival, it had been two weeks since their travel started. Furthermore, we also know that Kylntar resides 60,000 lightyears from Earth, an astounding feat that would yield a result of speeds reaching 1,565,359 times the speed of light! Now, you may be wondering the issue with this, as the 19-inch man himself took on and killed one of Knull's Symbiote Dragons, along with Symbiotes naturally being comparable to Spidey tiers and fighting them countless times. So what exactly is the issue you might ask?
This is a blatant travel speed feat. Symbiote Dragons performed this via their ability to fly by using their wings. Spideys can’t be compared to this because flight is an ability Peter blatantly does not possess (obviously). Thus, there’s no way that Insomniac’s Spider-Man should reasonably scale to a feat that requires being able to fly through space using travel speed, and doesn’t translate to any type of reaction or combat speed whatsoever.
One could make the argument that they would need to be flapping their wings at this speed to move this fast, but not all flying animals use their wings 100% of the time when it goes to flight. Dragons in fiction are constantly shown like this. There’s nothing to entail them flapping their wings at this speed.
You could say “but they’d have to reacting to stuff while moving fast”, but this likely isn’t the case. Space is incredibly empty and MFTL+ reaction time isn’t necessary to navigate through it.
For these purposes, we do not believe this feat is viable to use, and are therefore discarding it.
Leopardon's Speed
Across the board of Spider-Man feats, one that has popped up on the radar recently is one performed by the BEST Spider-Man, Toei’s Spider-Man AKA Takuya Yamashiro! One of the characters in the TV series named Garia uses the mech, the Leopardon, to travel from Planet Spider to Earth, a feat that would reach speeds of 175.25 c - 117,500 c times faster than light. Takuya is consistently the pilot of the Leopardon, so the assumption for this feat is that there is scaling in reaction time to being able to fly at such massively faster than light speeds. However, this feat runs into similar problems that the symbiote dragons feat has, primarily on the note of reaction speed. While yes, Takuya uses the mech to fight, this feat runs into the same issues as many piloting feats, where the pilot has no reactions while flying at those speeds, much less so for Garia since we don’t really see any scenes of what the space journey looked like. Inherently, there is nothing wrong with the mech itself being MFTL, but rather, it's not really reliable to scale any Spider-Man to it due to a lack of reaction feats from the pilot himself.
The Venom Symbiote Venoms All Over the Planet
The Venom Symbiote is a powerful entity no doubt. This is shown off in Spider-Man 2 when Venom tells Harry they will heal the world by giving the whole world the Venom Symbiote. This gives us the incredible feats of the Symbiote flooding New York and the entire planet in just a few seconds. However, these feats are very flawed.
The biggest and most obvious reason is that this is very blatantly a symbolic vision. The vision shows the Venom Symbiote covering the entire world in just a few seconds but this never comes to fruition and doesn't happen within the events of the game. For proof, we can look at the version of the Venom Symbiote covering New York in the game. In game the Symbiote only covers about half of New York, and it doesn't even fill up the whole space like the vision would make you think. So this already puts the feat under scrutiny for being nothing but a symbolic representation of the Symbiotes goal.
However, this becomes even more clear once you realize Venom would have needed to be amped to pull this off as Venom could only cover half of New York at first. To do this planet level feat Venom would have needed the power of the Symbiote meteorite to pull this off and that is made abundantly clear by Venom’s persistence and requirement to have it.
So to put it simply, there is no way feats from Venom’s premonition hold any weight as it is clearly symbolic, doesn't line up with the events of the game and would have required the amp given to it by the meteorite.
Verdict
Stats
Alright, let’s get into this. Batman's stats are all over the place due to the aforementioned debatable Superman scaling. We’ll cover what stats are like both with and without Superman scaling, including tackling some of Peter’s higher scaling chains in the with section - the debate isn’t affected by including Superman scaling, so we figured it’d be the best way to acknowledge it without crowding the verdict.
Without Superman scaling:
If you don't buy Superman scaling, Spider-Man should have the stat trinity on lock. Without any chainscaling, Batman is putting out an impressive 226.52 Tons of TNT thanks to the high-ends that Jason Todd survived. However, this is far less impressive compared to even Spider-Man's low ends, such as Miles being able to turn chunks of Sandman into glass, getting us 749.71 Tons of TNT. This is, of course, without going into the many higher end feats like the Nuform reactor getting 55.5 Megatons of TNT and anything to do with Venom. As for speed, even without Spidergeddon, stuff Peter is far, far faster. The absolute best Batman is getting is Mach 2 scaling to Flash’s statements. Meanwhile Insomniac was moving in tandem with a particle accelerator at 0.63c. Peter does have better speed feats that will be discussed momentarily, but the point is that without Superman scaling Spider-Man is cleanly statstomping at even low ends.
With Superman scaling:
If you do happen to buy Batman scaling to Superman, well that makes this debate a bit more complicated. This scaling would mean that Batman scales to Superman, outputting a level of 45.87 Ronnatons of TNT by rotating the planet. Even being very generous with interpretation, Spider-Man's best feats and scaling cap out at 424.7 Teratons of TNT, still way below anything Batman is putting out with this scaling. In terms of speed, as mentioned before Batman isn’t keeping up too well. So, Bruce AP stomps… but, as we said, if we use chain scaling for Bruce, Peter has to get it too, and his higher speed feats make the gap far worse. Due to Spidergedden, Spider-Man can scale to other versions of Spider-Man who can react to lightning bolts that travel from Mars to Earth at 74.47c. To say that Bruce is slower would be an incredibly huge understatement from us. Spider-Man would be almost 64 MILLION times faster then Bruce, and this is scaling Bruce directly to Barry and not downscaling him, making the speed gap arguably worse than this. No matter what Batman does, he’s never going to land a hit on Spider-Man, especially since he lacks AOE or anything of the sort. Spider-Man has all the time in the world to avoid Bruce and whittle him down, especially since Spider-Man just has far better stamina than Batman does. So overall, while Superman scaling does give Bruce the major edge in strength, Peter's far better speed and stamina should allow him to still come out on top.
Arsenal and Abilities
There’s a reason Batman is known as the man with everything, having a variety of weapons on-hand at the ready. His suit is incredibly impressive, able to analyze people’s fighting styles and having an instant revive if he comes close to death. However, while this is good for him, the problem is that most of his weapons rely on him outspeeding his opponents to land and are pretty specific, meaning they’d likely be dead weight here.. Most of them are non-lethal or take time to set up to be used properly, like Smoke Pellets, Line Launchers, Voice Synthesizers, Caltrops, and more. Batarangs can cause some damage, he could freeze Peter with an ice grenade, but most of these can be countered, especially given the insane speed gap in Peters favor. Spider-Man’s main line of attacking Bruce, his Web-Shooters can disarm and incapacitate incredibly easily, compared to Batman who needs to get close to disarm Spider-Man’s weapons permanently. Batman does have the disruptor, which could arguably disable Spider-Man’s Web-Shooters, but this has one major flaw; it only has three limited shots before needing to recharge. This leads to a running theme with this debate; while Peter’s arsenal doesn’t have as much as Bruce’s, it has far more quality compared to Bruce’s quantity. For those wondering, the Remote Hacking Device does take time to use, and usually only shuts off electronics for a few seconds, making it basically useless here. Spider-Man can use Concussive Webs to knock him back, Electrical Webs to shock him, Suspension Matrix to trap him in a gravity field, and so much more, all of which would render Bruce incapacitated in a 1 on 1 setting. Batman has a very specific arsenal that relies on two different things, a close-quartered opponent and someone who isn’t swinging around. Batman also cannot use his stealth to set up any of these traps, as Peter has his Spidey-Sense, detecting danger and the presence of attacks He can easily catch anything Batman attempts to throw at him, or see a trap before it’s set up. To be fair to Batman, Sound of Silence (the power which makes Spider-Man’s attack silenced) wouldn’t matter as Batman could just see him with detective vision.
Oh, if we’re on about disrupting technology, Spider-Man has bots able to release EMPs able to shut down Batman’s technology, which we know can be disrupted by the Militia in Arkham City. They both also have similar items within their arsenals, such as both being able to cast illusions,
“What about the Batmobile?”
The Batmobile might seem potentially useful, due to its abilities to hack into technology and release EMPS as well as the fact he’s even able to summon it at will. However, given that Spider-Man is way, way faster, can just swing around, and could likely just grab any of the shots from the Batmobile out of the air with his webs? It’s useless. Considering that the Batmobile was crushed by Jason Todd’s drill machine, it doesn’t have durability as strong as Batman (as weird as a statement that is). Spider-Man can just crush it or throw it around out of the fight.
Batman has many different suits that could potentially increase his power or make this fight incredibly difficult. His main one can self revive, Blackest Night (Arkham Mobile) can give Batman health if he’s going to die, Blackest Night (Arkham Game) can make Batman immune to damage. Before you all jump to the conclusion Batman sweeps thanks to this, incapacitation is still a valid wincon, which Peter can do by webbing Batman up and trapping him - Bruce’s strength isn’t helpful when he’s completely unable to move, after all, and Peter could realistically just… leave him there to do nothing.. But, this is forgetting Peter’s simplest win condition - Equalizer, an ability that lets him one-shot any enemy, no matter health or armor, even through shields… (HOLY SHIT DELSIN OBLITERATION RETURNS?) Batman revives? Good, punch him again. It isn’t a permanent solution. It’s also a bit generous to Bruce to say he’d have on the Blackest Night suit at the beginning of a fight, when realistically he probably wouldn’t. .
“What about Fear Toxin?”
Fear Toxin is weird to discuss as it had multiple effects throughout the franchise. Usually it causes illusions to appear in those who've been hit by it, consistent with both Arkham Asylum and Arkham Knight. Lesser thugs have been hit by the Fear Toxin who has died, but there’s a few issues with this feat. 1. It’s just an Easter Egg, we don’t know what Scarecrow did, or how long he exposed the poor soul to Fear Toxin. Not only that, but Batman has broken through with sheer willpower alone. Spider-Man has been in close-counters with a toxin, that of Scorpion’s, which had a similar killing effect. 2. We’ve never seen it do anything like this ever again, it was just a one-time thing, making this even more confusing. Now, if Spider-Man gets caught in it, could his mind be lost to fear? Yes. Spider-Man doesn’t have any direct fear resistance and Harley had to study for months, while deciphering Scarecrow, to resist Fear Toxin. It would likely end with Spider-Man dying if he was caught by the toxin, meaning this would be a potential win-condition for Bruce… but he’s way too slow to ever hit Peter with it, rendering it functionally moot.
Tertiary Factors
For tertiary factors, this is fairly close. In terms of experience, Bruce should pretty cleanly take it - both have been operating for many years, however Bruce has been operating for 17 as opposed to Peter’s 10 and has had a lot more high-stakes adventures he’s gone across said games. However, they both are very similar when it comes to skill. They’ve both fought armies of highly trained soldiers and defeated people considered to be masters of martial arts. They are also both masters of stealth, and considered some of the most intelligent characters in their respective verses. If we were to give slight advantages, Batman should be a bit better at stealth since it's his primary fighting style as well as most of his kit supporting that tendency. Batman also has far better memory and analysis skills due to being the world’s greatest detective - while Peter is certainly no slouch here, he’s nowhere near Bruce’s level.. Now Peter on the other hand, is likely smarter in a scientific sense given all of the engineering and chemistry he can do in mere seconds. However Peter's biggest advantage here is most likely his agility and acrobatics, which he has shown time and time again to be a master off. Peter primarily fights by trying to outspeed his opponents, which is a huge advantage against a planner such as Batman. So to conclude, Spider-Man and Batman are equals in many areas here, but while Bruce has his advantages, Spidey’s fighting style is just perfect for dealing with Batman, giving him this category.
Conclusion
Overall, Peter should take this fight with relative ease no matter how you look at it. If you don’t use Superman scaling… well, this is basically just Batman vs. Spider-Man but Batman gets statstomped even harder than he usually does - but, that’s a lot more boring to talk about, so let’s talk about it with Superman scaling.
With Superman scaling in mind, Bruce is a juggernaut well beyond anything Peter can do in AP, however the speed gap is so huge he can’t really do anything with said speed. He’s way too slow to ever be able to hit Peter, and Peter’s superior stamina ensures he can outlast Bruce pretty consistently - he can also incapacitate him with webbing or use Equalizer to one-shot him due to its durability-negation properties, ensuring Peter will win no matter what.
Arkham Batman was a fearsome foe, and certainly gave Peter pause. But Spider-Man's insanely better speed, perfect counters, and superior stamina ultimately brought this Dark Knight to an end. Guess this Batman shouldn't have been such an insomniac.
The winner is Insomniac's Spider-Man.
Advantages and Disadvantages
Batman
“You want to know something funny? Even after everything you’ve done, I would have saved you.”
Advantages:
Massively stronger with Superman scaling
WAY more gadgets
More experienced
Kevin Conroy
Man
Equal (If necessary):
Skill
Disadvantages:
Notably weaker without Superman scaling
Millions of times slower, meaning he’s effectively unable to do anything
Stealth is countered by Spidey Sense
Equalizer one-shots him even with Superman scaling
Finally gets a new game in over 8 years… but it’s subjugated to MetaQuest
Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League
Is stupid or something
Spider-Man
“Spider-Man didn’t save me back there… Miles did.”
Advantages:
Way stronger without Superman scaling even at low ends
Massively faster
Spidey Sense is a huge counter to stealth
Very versatile fighting style
Greater agility with combat midair
Equalizer counters Bruce's greater strength and durabiity very easily
Superior stamina
Hyphen Man
Equal (If necessary):
Skill
Disadvantages:
A lot weaker with Superman scaling
Less gadgets
Less experienced
Plastic surgery
Spider-Man 2 got nominated for 7 Game Awards and didn’t win a single one
Has scoliosis from the back pain he took (probably)
Votes
Team Batman [2]: (Bat-Gos [definitely isn’t glazing], Cryotechnics [he HATES Spider-geddon])
Team Spider-Man [9]: (Tru, Saul, door-kun, The Cardinal King, Fenic, Why am I here, Coach Boomer, Hippo, Evachuber)
Thank You/Next Time
Wow just wow, a whole wave of blogs has gone by, it's amazing what can happen when you work with good people you know.
This blog has a lot out shout outs that need to be made so I'll run through them because they all deserve to commemorated for their work
Thank you to Saul, who almost single handedly did all of the Arkham work by himself with links and research l. He really pulled through and made the Arkham side as in depth and good as it is.
Thank you to Seba, Fenic V and Blue Igneous (Who unfortunately had to leave the blog) for helping a ton on Spider-Man’s side, making sure we could get done with all of Peter's stuff in a timely manner.
And while we did all of this game research, 2 people stepped up to research a fuck ton of Spider-Man comic media all by themselves. Thank you to Bat-Gos and a HUGE thank you to Cardinal for producing the god-like Comic Spider-Man scaling sections you saw today. Any buffs are on their hands.
A shout out to Door-kun for helping with constant contribution to the debate and keeping the blog focused on completion.
And finally, a shout out To Normal And BiteRaptor. These two deserve a ton of praise for calculating so many feats. These two got pinged 100 times and still helped out the blog so huge props to them.
And of course, thank you for taking the time to read the work of all these hard people. They brought their a game and made this blog the best it can be.
And now for the next time, a new wave…
(Trailer by Cheese is coming soon btw, it will tease a bunch of match ups coming soon so stay tuned)
Chaos VS Kyogre
(Sonic the Hedgehog VS Pokémon)
See yall next… WAVE!
"You could say “but they’d have to reacting to stuff while moving fast”, but this likely isn’t the case. Space is incredibly empty and MFTL+ reaction time isn’t necessary to navigate through it."
ReplyDeleteCompletely false. Cosmic Rays also travel at the speed of light within the vacuum of space, there being about trillions of them hitting Earth everyday, only being protected because of the atmosphere; if it wasn't there no defense, we would all instantly be decaying with radiation poisoning (and given the antimatter within said rays, Earth might as well be wiped out with the amount of collision of matter & antimatter would happen, in an instant); there's support to that claim to, grb have about 83 billion rays, again, there are trillions of rays hitting Earth, we would be wiped out in a snap, just like that; these rays are able to instantly shoot themselves all the way to the universe, or anywhere in the universe if given a specific direction, like Earth. The only reason why light doesn't experience time dilation, like theoretically someone like a human would with their perception while at said speeds traversing the universe is because light's whole purpose is to be a massless particle that has no distance between start point or end point, being "shot" from an atom, to then be absorbed to another in what direction it was going to, similar properties to teleportation. With these being said, the amount of speed you'd need to react and perceive with that would ginormous, but travelling at just that speed (the speed of light) theoretically, without the need of converting one to matter to energy, from energy to matter, then time dilation beings no matter how you spin it, that's how relativity works as a whole; time will have no more reference of frame when travelling at light speed, since travelling at that speed will contract spacetime to to a spherical point that will infinitely contract space, leaving no distance between start and end, throughout the universe itself; time will look normal to a person's perception when travelling at such speeds, but everywhere else in The Universe will look like the particles of a cloud trying to walk along Planck lengths, even stuff that'll reach mach 1-10, will look like a flying snail try to travel from the Milky Way galaxy to the Andromeda Galaxy compared the rate of light travel from one start of a diameter of The Universe, to another. A Human travelling at light speed will essentially just get obliterated when crashing to the edge of The Universe.
TL;DR: Yes you do need the reactions to maneuver around The Universe, mainly because of time dilation and relativity proportions to the speed of light; not having the perception speed to match that will instantly end in said character dying on the spot, while at the ends of The Universe.
No offense my man, but a good chunk of this response is meaningless word-salad, bringing up cosmic rays wasn't even that relevant to your end statement; relatively is enough. Humans can observe the Andromeda Galaxy without telescopes, over two million LYS away from Earth. The distance between Klyntar & Earth gives the Symbiote Dragons plenty of time to decelerate once Earth is visible at their speed. The axiom on c is it's a constant reference frame, therefore photons will take longer to transfer (because dilation is a matter of distance not time), and is the same no matter their relative motion. It'll be witnessed by both parties moving the same distance at the exact time-frames. Meaning relativity doesn't somehow inherently equate to someone fighting at or having reflex time at c when approaching relative c speeds; if anything the slower perception of time can potentially lead to slower reaction time. Furthermore, the Symbiote Dragons are moving faster than light (1.5 Millions times to be precise), AKA the speed that breaks causality – why we can't breach the c barrier is because photons will continuously take longer to traverse the energy infinitely. FloatHead explains why this is extremely well, so watch it here. It's a good vid.
Deletehttps://youtu.be/Vitf8YaVXhc?t=700&si=Gfm4tX11t6R3rakj
So our limit is the speed of light, meaning something faster than light is a negative value because we can't measure it with modern physics under the dilation or relativity formula. Now, FTL travel is theoretically possible with warp bubbles as proposed by Alcubierre, and there is no experience of time dilation by anyone traveling. One Symbiote Dragon accelerating at 1,565,359c will take two weeks to travel on Earth to both viewers' POV no matter their relative motion differences. Relativity shatters at FTL, bringing it up to defend the feat is literally meaningless and not looking at matters holistically. Their reactions not combative time shouldn't be comparable, and how Marvel treats interstellar travel supports said notion, a user on Spacebattles named Xcano worded it beautifully.
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/can-cosmic-fear-garou-defeat-any-of-galactuss-heralds-if-so-which-is-the-strongest-he-could-defeat.1143271/page-3
TL;DR: They're kinda cooking.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@Lights Thanks for the response! So relativity is essentially what correlates reaction to travel (based off the spacebattle forums)?
DeleteIt really doesnt make sense to me logical that creatures that can move millions of times the speed of light don't have somewhat comparable reaction speed regardless of if we see them directly react while moving. Like they are not piloting the ship they qre flying whoch means they are also flapping wings at these speeds. Any writer who could create any creature that can fly would assume that.
DeleteNot a bad blog at all but I wonder what the point of doing an Insomniac Spider-Man battle was if well over half of the analysis would be scaling him to regular comics, I mean he's being scaled to fuckin' 616 Iron Man here and that's really unfortunate.
ReplyDelete