Rocky Balboa VS Daniel Larusso (Rocky VS The Karate Kid)
"Martial arts is not about fighting; it's about building character." – Bo Bennett
Rocky Balboa, The Italian Stallion
Daniel Larusso, The Karate Kid
Way way back in the 1980's, martial arts and sports movies were all the rage. Everybody loves to see a good fight now and then, but doing it in style always brings out the fans. So, let's pit two of the biggest underdogs in martial arts movie history against each other in a duel, where one will be taken down, and the other will prove he is truly the best around.
Before We Begin
This blog will be taking both in their prime. Rocky will be given the skills, knowledge and feats of his later movies, but in terms of physical condition he will be set to Rocky 4. Daniel is set at the most recent episodes of Cobra Kai (Season 6 Part 1 as of writing) as he is shown to be his strongest here and not a child.
This blog will mostly focus on the main canon for both characters. These include Rocky 1-5 and the Creed Trilogy for Rocky. For Daniel we will be using the original Karate Kid Trilogy and the New Karate Kid as it takes place in the Miyagi-Verse. Other supplementary sources will be included but on a case by case basis depending on how well they fit the established lore. So sorry to the Cobra Kai video games and Ice Magic for Daniel. We also will not include the Karate Kid Animated TV show or the Karate Kid reboot as the show is stated to be non-canon, and the reboot has no way to be connected with mainline Karate Kid as of now. Of note, we will also be taking into consideration their duels both in and outside the traditional rules of their sport.
As normal not all calculations and research is done by our blog alone. A big shout out to VSBW's Rocky Balboa page, VSBW's Daniel LaRusso page, Z1’s Rocky blog, Z1's Karate Kid document, 76SUP’s John Royale, and Galaxy Video Max’s Rocky blog.
On the topic of Z1, thanks to them for letting us use their information and joining the blog. If you notice some of the Rocky descriptions look familiar. That's because Z1 themselves gave us permission and pasted the info into the blog. We did not plagiarize this info and steal it to pass it off as our own. We are not Deku VS Miles. Please read the original blog. It has a lot of good info and it is very well made.
Finally a thank you to Fenic.V for doing the images for the Background section. They do great work and deserve their credit.
Background
Rocky
“Underdog”. This means “a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or a competition.” No man in the history of boxing fits this more than Rocky Balboa. Rocky always had trouble with complex thought, and eventually dropped out of high school as a result. His father once said that he should stick to his body if his brain didn't work too well, so, he found his way to the gym of former boxer “Mighty Mick”, and figured if he couldn't hit the books, he may as well start hitting people instead. To make ends meet, Rocky became a leg breaker to a “cheap second-rate loan shark”, much to Mickey's, and secretly to his own chagrin. Even at 30 years old, he remained stagnant, and seemed forever doomed to mediocrity as a muscle-brained fool; a good-for-nothing bum. However, all of this would change when Rocky was given the chance of a lifetime.
The current heavyweight champion of the boxing world, Apollo Creed, was put in an embarrassing position after his challenger for the upcoming bicentennial washed out through a broken hand. With few options left and his reputation at stake, Apollo came up with the idea to grant a local Philadelphia boy an opportunity to win the championship. With such a brilliant idea, Apollo chose Rocky at random, simply from his name, “the Italian Stallion.” Initially skeptical of the opportunity to battle the greatest warrior in the world, Rocky was coaxed into it by his friends, his new girlfriend Adrien, and by Mickey, who agreed to train Rocky and show the world just how good a fighter he was. Against all odds, after just a month of training, Rocky went the distance with Apollo; 15 rounds of unrivaled action that put both men on death's door, until Creed ultimately won by decision.
This would not be the end of Rocky’s tale however. Pressured by how the press viewed the fight, Apollo baited Rocky into a rematch for the ages. By this time, Rocky had married Adrien, and the two had a son of their own. With his wife's blessing, Rocky trained once more, and shocked the world yet again through defeating Creed and becoming the new heavyweight champion of the world. Since then, Rocky has fought with every inch he can give, despite all that he has lost. Mickey passed away from heart-related injuries, Apollo, who became an old friend respite it all, was killed while battling the Russian boxer Ivan Drago, and even Adrien of cancer. Rocky's life became so fraught with sorrow that it became hard to breathe, but as Balboa had always shown, he would never give up without a fight. Even as a 60 year old man, he returned to boxing for one last hurrah to usher in a new champion worth his salt in Mason Dixon, trained the illegitimate son of Apollo; Adonis Creed, and patched things up with his estranged son. Despite it all, Rocky has built himself up as a legend for as long as he lives, because, as the man himself said, “it ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can take, and keep moving forward,” and nobody can take hits as hard as Rocky Balboa.
Daniel
“When the fight comes to you, you have to be ready to fight back.”
“Underdog”. This means “a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or a competition- ok you get the idea. No man in the history of karate fits this more than Daniel Larusso. Daniel was only eight years old when his father was taken by a terminal illness, being forced to leave his home in New Jersey because of his mother’s inability to make ends meet. So it was tough for Daniel to move away from his old home and accept a new life in California, especially with all the bullies running around learning under the dangerous karate program, The Cobra Kai Dojo. Led by Johnny Lawrence, they were relentless and brutal to Daniel for being the new kid on the block and trying to get with Johnny’s ex-girlfriend. Beating him up on the beach, on the soccer field, even pushing him off of a cliff. However, all of this would change when Daniel met his new neighbor, Mr Miyagi.
Mr Miyagi was the real deal of karate skill, none of that cheap YMCA training Daniel had done before. After Miyagi had tended his wounds from the fall earlier, he taught Daniel a thing or two about life and even went to Cobra Kai’s Dojo to take up Johnny’s behavior with his sensei, John Kreese. But Kreese is just as stubborn as his students and challenges Daniel to compete ‘mano-a-mano' in the All-Valley Karate Tournament to which they both accept. So Miyagi teaches Daniel seemingly unimportant chores that would actually be brilliant ways of training his body for karate. So when the tournament came, Daniel was able to beat Johnny using a crane kick and proving himself to everyone.
This would not be the end of Daniel’s tale however. Daniel would go on to battle Chozen Toguchi in Japan, sparing his life in a battle to the death with a technique that Miyagi had used to incapacitate Kreese earlier who had tried to harm Johnny after losing the tournament to Daniel, leaving Kreese broke and lost as he contacts a fellow Vietnam soldier, Terry Silver, to manipulate Daniel and Miyagi personally. Planning to bring back Cobra Kai to what would be a failed attempt as Daniel defeats Silver’s student, Mike Barnes. And for a while it was peaceful for Daniel’s life, that is at least until a washed Johnny tried to revive Cobra Kai with the help of his new student, Miguel. This would lead Daniel to start practicing karate once more, training Robby, Johnny’s son, and starting Miyagi-Do Karate. Creating a new battle between the two former rivals and their new dojos with twists and turns of the return of Kreese and Silver. Yet despite it all, Daniel Larusso is still a legend of karate for as long as he lives, as he said himself, “When the fight comes to you, you have to be ready to fight back.” And trust that when he says he will fight, The Karate Kid will do what needs to be done.
Experience/Skill/IQ/Other
Rocky
As one of the most famous boxing champions in history, Rocky has been through virtually everything as a fighter. Just brief examples would be his infamous training scenes, where he covers all of his muscles and the various ways to strengthen them in unorthodox ways, like using Cow Ribs as punching bags or chasing chickens to improve his speed. This training also happens extremely fast, and Rocky’s capable of using it to get stronger and learn new skills in a very short period of time. He nearly beat Apollo Creed in their first super fight just after training seriously for one month. Rocky was just as strong as your average boxer beforehand while Apollo Creed was the best boxer in the world. Before their rematch, Apollo proceeds to train seriously and even gaining more weight to have a power advantage over Rocky meanwhile Rocky didn’t train as long before this match and comes out on top. Rocky would then proceed to not only get stronger the next movie but master a new fighting style in a short period of time while facing “His most powerful adversary yet” in the form of James “Clubber” Lang. Mickey even states Clubber is a “wrecking machine” and was nothing like any normal boxer as he’s seen him no diff normal boxers. Then proceeded to get even stronger to face Ivan Drago. Finally, Rocky’s best showing of fast paced development is despite being retired for 20 years with arthritis, calcium deposits on most of his joints, bad knees and “no speed” he trains to the point he can go the distance and keep up with the current unified champion at the time, Mason Dixon who has been boxing ever since he was 10 years old. Trivia for the Rocky series claims Mason’s fighting style was modeled after Roy Jones Jr. who focused on unpredictability,reflexes and power. He's also fought people outside the traditional rules of boxing, like the wrestler Hulk Hogan Thunderlips, and his street fight with the younger Tommy Gunn (who he trained by the way).
Daniel
Due to the progress in the movies and Cobra Kai Daniel gained a lot of useful knowledge and experience. Under Mr. Miyagi Daniel grew in the ways of Miyagi-Do Karate. With each new movie Daniel became stronger and faster with every new move he learns. It also helped that Daniel had Mr Miyagi who he learns from faster than he ever could under Cobra Kai. Daniel knows how to keep a strong center of balance while practicing his blocking techniques, keeps his balance on a tree stump while performing the crane kick on one leg and keeps his timing and accuracy dodging and smacking a swinging hammer. He knows how to perform counter attacks on experienced karate fighters to the point he’s done it twice in the same fight. Can execute perfect drops and perform leg sweeps on his opponents, this exact same method is used again in the comic version of Karate Kid 1 both being performed against black belt Johnny Lawrence. He can catch black belt Chozen Toguchi mid flying kick and slam him and counter Chozen’s headlock by flipping him over. Daniel competed in the Under 18 All-Valley Karate Championship where only students brown-belt level and above and won by countering against black belt Mike Barnes. The Novel version of this fight reiterated Mr.Miyagi’s words that in order to counter Mike’s Hard Karate (Focused on Power and Strength) Daniel needed to channel the best of his Soft Karate (Focused on Speed and Precision). Even when he’s rusty he keeps his focus while climbing up a chain rope, keeps his high accuracy by kicking a cup out of a man’s hand from behind him, has a duel exchange with Chozen and intercepts his kick by grabbing his leg and spinning him around and still knows a thing or two on how to use Bo staffs (as also seen when he spars with staffs against Chozen) and owns a pair of nunchucks which would be consistent with Miyagi-Do Okinawans heritage. Daniel’s teaching ability is very notable as he made Robby reach second place in the Under 18 All-Valley Karate Championship only after training him for a few months. Daniel’s able to keep up with Vietnam War veterans and sensei's like John Kreese and keep up with Terry Silver who focused on nothing more than bloodlusted brutal methods of martial arts.
Abilities/Techniques
Rocky
Southpaw Style
This is Rocky’s standard fighting style when he enters the ring. He leads into the match utilizing his right hand which is also his dominant arm, this style is also factually proven as being a natural strategic advantage in most boxing matches.
Slugger
Rocky keeps himself close to his opponents so he can land as many punches as he can while being fully prepared to get hit himself as much as possible. It’s iconically used for a fighter to take advantage of any brute strength they may have over their opponent and keep the pressure cutting off any leg room they have to move.
Apollo Style
Rocky focuses on his footwork and keeping his distance allowing him to dodge “a bombardment” of attacks and strike with 100% accuracy, building up damage to their foes with master-class evasive maneuvers. Rocky becomes much more of a technical fighter as, if he’s “dancing” he utilizes the entire ring to his advantage not only was he taught this by Apollo but Apollo learned this through his personal trainer Tony Evers who’s a technical fighting genius. This style was actually based on real life heavyweight champion fighter Muhammad Ali in summary it’s an advanced form of standard Out-Boxing. Which would include the methods of reading the opponent’s next attack.
Boxer-Puncher
Rocky learned to utilize every boxing style he was taught and combine multiple styles into one taught to him by technical boxing expert Mickey Godmill before and after his time of being world champion. This style is also known as the highest form of pressure a fighter can do in the ring, constantly shifting between styles and finding more openings in their opponents to strike.
Unorthodox Boxing Style
When in a street fight, the term “No holds barred” is taken very seriously to Rocky. Rocky not only utilizes everything he’s learned like how to be an In-fighter, out-fighter, brawler and swarmer but he’s shown how to use other combat techniques such as elbows, leg sweeps, takedowns, judo throws alongside headlocks and chokeholds. It was even stated by the technical genius Tony Evers that Rocky knows everything there is to know about fighting which would include Clubber Lang’s Street Fighting and Raw power based boxing style that earned him the title of “Southside Slugger”.
Rage Power
When he gets mad, Rocky noticeably gets much stronger. He went from receiving notable damage from Clubber Lang’s punches to tanking them as Paulie said “He’s making him mad”. Rocky would showcase this ability again while facing Ivan Drago as they entered the final round the punches that used to send Rocky flying suddenly stopped dead in their tracks against his face as Rocky eggs on Drago to hit him harder.
Sheer Willpower
Rocky’s willpower knows no bounds, besides his Iron chin that's kept him longer in fights he was capable of fighting through his mental and physical disabilities such as Cavum Septum Pellucidum with sheer willpower. This same willpower made him keep up with the stat advantage and skill of Mason Dixon and last all 12 rounds.
Daniel
Miyagi-Do Karate
Miyagi-Do focuses on breathing and strong positioning of the arms and body. You keep a strong balance protecting both your head and lower body. The style is all about patience and waiting for your opponent to strike almost all of the moves within this style are blocks or counters. Miyagi-Do moves and techniques are usually learned through doing chores such as painting or sanding the floors. These build muscle memory by doing the motions of these actions repeatedly. Real world professional fighters explain the techniques of Miyagi-do are based on Goju Ryu Karate otherwise known as the “hard-soft style” of Okinawa style karate and Miyagi Do training requires lots of footwork.
Kata
Katas in general are a sequence of movements in karate that focus on primarily offensive and defensive methods, strategies and stances used with kicks, punches, strikes, blocks, throws, stepping, turning, twisting, dropping and jumping. The one being performed in the gif is known as “Seiuchin" which only uses techniques centered around the arms and hands. One other Kata shown on screen from Miyagi-Do is “Shisochin” as well as “Naihanchi Sam Dan”. Daniel also teaches Sam and Robby the Kata “Kanku Dai”.
Kata also helps Daniel with his focus. This is best shown when he used Kata to calm his nerves when he fought Mike Barnes which is what ended up winning him the match.
Wax On, Wax Off
This style focused on intercepting and blocking the opponent’s wrist and arm by rotating your arms constantly with deep breathing. Based around muscle memory that Daniel fully learned after repeatedly doing chores. The purpose of this technique is the same within the novels otherwise known as the Kata “Tensho”.
Sand the Floor
Performs the same methods as the Wax On, Wax Off only this time the motions are done in opposite directions while being reminded by Mr. Miyagi to breathe in and out to retain his stamina.
Paint the Fence
By moving his arms up and down to paint the fence, Daniel focuses on increasing the strength of his wrist for both hands as usual he’s reminded to keep breathing. The “Paint the House” method of training is similar to this only this time he moves his arms side to side.
Honk
A Miyagi-Do finishing move to keep their merciful ways intact. Instead of killing his opponent Daniel will give them a good squeeze of the nose. This will embarrass the enemy and make them live with the shame of losing instead of dying with honor. Some may even be left in a temporary state of shock.
Crane Technique
A standard high front kick performed on one leg, Mr.Miyagi states if performed correctly there is no defense against it.
Drum Technique
This move is based on the Okinawan hand drum, focused on dodging attacks while twisting the user’s body back and forth similar to the pellets of the Okinawan drum. Daniel uses it in his fight against Chozen to divert and counter each and every single one of his attacks, the novel even claims the twisting motion coupled with counter attacks increases Daniel’s striking power.
Pressure Points
The Miyagi-Do pressure points technique is an ancient technique from when the ancestors of Mr. Miyagi fought a war. To beat them, Miyagi's ancestors took away their ability to wage it. The technique is performed by hitting vital pressure points in someone's body to disable their arms and a leg for a short period of time.
Handstand Kick
Stated to be the strongest kick in Miyagi-Do, this kick is a sight to behold. While Daniel has never been able to pull it off he was incredibly close at his old age and may have been able to if Robby had not thrown off his concentration. Robby himself has also shown the ability to do this kick after very minimal training.
Cobra Kai/Quick Silver
Despite Daniel's hatred of Cobra Kai he is aware of the way of the fist as he has been trained in it. Specifically the version taught to him by Terry Silver known as the Quick Silver method, which is a customized variant of the Kata “Koryo”, most familiar with Taekwondo, Terry’s master was Kim Sun Yung who was knowledgeable in Tang Soo Do which focused on korean style karate combined with northern chinese martial arts and what soon became the basis of Taekwondo however Chozen states Kim’s version of Tang Soo Do focused on “deception, no honor and no mercy”. The Quick Silver method builds off Cobra Kai's original rules of strike hard, strike fast and no mercy. However, it also comes with a methodology to beat your opponent by making them incapable of fighting no matter how legal it may be. This method comes with 3 rules.
Rule 1: “A man can’t stand, he can't fight”. This rule is shown by a sweep of the leg higher than the knee. This throws the opponent off balance and while it is cheating, it makes scoring a point or getting damage easy.
Rule 2: “A man can't breathe, he can't fight”. This is done in the form of a powerful attack to the ribs and lungs. This will knock the air out of the opponent making it hard for them to continue. This rule was later turned into a punch called the “Silverbullet” that Daniel could likely do something similar to given how he was trained in Quick Silver.
Rule 3: “A man can't see, he can't fight”. This is shown by waiting for the enemy to get close before nailing them in the nose as hard as possible. Is it illegal in competition? Yes, but remember, they ran into your fist. By doing this punch the foe will be in a daze of tears and blood making them incapable of fighting back.
While this is not the most in character thing for Daniel to use he has accepted use of it's offensive style in modern day Miyagi Do due to his partnership with Johnny Lawrence. Daniel even did a day of training in Eagle Fang, Johnny's renamed Cobra Kai which culminated with Daniel using the style to beat up a bunch of hockey players. Daniel has also used the Quick Silver method in his fight against an older Terry Silver. So for Danny-boy, it would not be unreasonable to say he could use some form of Cobra Kai while fighting.
Arsenal
Rocky
Boxing Gloves
Like any boxer Rockos wore various pairs of boxing gloves when going up against his opponents. While they’ve changed various times since the first film they all pretty much function the same, although red looks the best on him.
Daniel
Miyagi-Do Karate Headband
Standard karate headband that Daniel has worn throughout the series ever since he started taking training seriously with Mr.Miyagi and to fight his strongest foes. Even at the moment he now wears the headband as a symbol of respect and to teach his students.
Stats
Rocky
Feats
Became a two time American Heavyweight Champion
Befriended and avenged Apollo Creed
Pulled a W wife who stuck with him until the end
Trained Adonis Creed, who followed in his footsteps and became a Heavyweight Champion
Attack Potency
Lifts up and throws Thunderlips who weighs 390 lbs
Lifts Paulie, Tony and Adrian alongside a part of a wooden wagon
Sends George Washington Duke flying onto a car with a punch (1.467 - 9.521 Kilojoules)
Trains by breaking cow ribs in just the first movie, when he was far from his prime (22.6 - 67.947 Kilojoules)
Durability
Lasts 15 rounds against Apollo Creed with a broken nose and trauma around his eyes
Goes for a 30.61 mile run while still having energy to burn afterwards
Survived all 15 rounds constantly getting hit with Ivan Drago’s punches
Speed
Daniel
Feats
Became a two time All-Valley Karate tournament champion
Took on some of the best fighters in the world like Johnny Lawrence, Chozen Toguchi, Mike Barns, John Kreese and Terry Silver
Runs a successful car dealership with his family
Teaches and spreads the Miyagi-Do way to all kinds of students, even bringing them to the Sekai Takai.
Attack Potency
Knocks over Mr.Miyagi in his catchers gear with a punch
Stops a grown man’s attack and throws him into a cabinet, breaking it in the process
Lays out a thug who could chop through three shelves in one swing
Which is consistent with him bashing through wooden boards
Chops through 3 “Cakes worth” of Ice (3.3 - 7.19 Kilojoules)
Chopped through six sheets of ice at once (shown above) (5.7 Kilojoules)
In the SNES game that strips entire scenes from the trilogy, he destroys these ice blocks with notably greater force (12.5 - 53.67 Kilojoules)
Durability
Can exercise and train on the hottest days of the year to build up endurance
Was thrown into glass by John Kreese (shown above), but for the full video
Survives a back kick from Rufus that sent him flying out of the ring
Speed
Dodge a flurry of attacks from Mike Barnes (as seen above)
Broke through multiple wooden plates in quick succession while practicing Quick Silver
Intercepts fastballs thrown at him from a baseball pitch machine (31.32 - 40.23 M/S)
These fastballs were potent enough to dent a wall so it would be reasonable to assume they were put at the max setting
Scaling
Rocky
Various Boxers
Description.
Joe Chan is stated to have an “excellent boxing brain” and is a tricky fighter
Floyd McCallum is stated to be well rounded in all disciplines and a great technical boxer
Spider Rico has been boxing for over 15 years and knows every trick in the book
Marco Chavez is a smart fighter who can handle just about any situation in the ring
Buddy Snow was stated to blind his opponents with “lightning quick flurries”
Alain Girard is a well rounded fighter with good all-around skill
Your average heavyweight boxer in this series can strike with 700 PSI (22.398 - 58.787 Kilojoules)
The Creeds
Not many people have been able to match the Creeds in the ring. However, Rocky has gone 15 rounds, blow for blow with Apollo Creed and even beaten him. Rocky has also trained and seen Apollo’s son, Adonis on a similar level to his father (which again, Rocky beat) so scaling to both Apollo and Adonis should make sense.
Was stated as being the most dangerous fighter in the entire world in Rocky 1
Stated as having the fastest hands in the heavyweight division while also punching so fast he can hit someone twice before they even realize they’ve been hit (25 M/S)
Survived over a dozen punches from Ivan Drago before collapsing around this time Drago’s punch capabilities reach 1,850 PSI (59.195 - 155.367 Kilojoules)
Adonis was stated as having constant but efficient foot work,unconventional defense and a “classic” and “unorthodox” style of boxing that controls defense with technical punches
The Dragos
Going rounds with Ivan Drago is no easy feat. A juiced up Russian powerhouse trained with the best equipment and given the best drugs. Ivan Drago has even killed people in the ring such as Apollo Creed. Despite the odds, Rocky took hits from and beat Ivan Drago meaning the scaling should be valid. Since Rocky likely scales to Adonis who beat Viktor Drago and scales to Ivan Drago, who is likely much stronger than his son, Rocky should scale to Viktor as well.
Ivan Drago literally KILLED Apollo Creed in the ring and tanked all of Apollo’s punches
Ivan Drago is consistently stated as to being “trained to perfection”
Stallone himself states Ivan Drago “was the future”, a human evolved 1,000 years where man should be with total flawless brains & brawns
Ivan Drago punch with and 1,850 - 2,150 PSI (59.195-155.367 Kilojoules & 68.794-180.562 Kilojoules)
Drago was noted to have sent Rocky flying 15ft with his punch, taking into consideration Ivan was injected with even more steroids and proceeded to work out even more afterwards which boost physical capabilities by 5-20% this would make Ivan’s power by the time of the fight hitting >72.23-216.67 Kilojoules
Considering the Rocky universe shares some natural laws of physics, Drago should be applying 50% of his weight behind these punches with that in mind we’ll just break down his energy to see how fast his punches would have to be in order to dish out this level of power (44.795-85.7 M/S). Of course he’s hitting faster than this by the time he fights Rocky (Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Viktor Drago took a crowbar to his hand
John Rambo??? (Debatable)
When Sylvester Stallone had been asked who would win in a fight between Rocky and Rambo he believed the fight would go either way with the winner requiring to pull out all the stops and use everything they’ve learned throughout their lifetime, Rambo is a master martial artist and is highly skilled in all forms of combat. When asked about the question again on who would win between Rocky and Rambo, he quickly answered that Rambo would easily win unless it would take place within a ring. Implying that Rambo would only win due to his bloodlust and lack of mercy, not because of physical power. Which is very impressive when Rambo can pull off feats such as…
However a mountain lion’s strength is deadly enough to scare off black bears and regularly hunt bisons (56.3 - 120.936 Kilojoules)
Survived being hit by an explosive shockwave powerful enough to destroy trees (0.0026 Tons of TNT)
Stronger than Lewis, who survived stepping on a landmine directly (0.0071 Tons of TNT)
Dives into water before a grenade launcher shot could hit him (56.81 - 65 M/S)
Ducks bullets shot from a AKM gun before the bullets hit a rock (Mach 2.08)
Daniel
The Students
As a Sensei Daniel has led many students in the way of Miyagi-Do Karate. He also has seen his students fight against the students of Cobra Kai. As a mentor and well, an adult he should be above the feats shown by these students. He also has performed similar feats as some of them to further validate the scaling.
Miguel Diaz, while extremely injured, survived a fall over a railing and onto a staircase
Breaks a steel railing with a kick (0.698 - 1.91 Kilojoules)
Intercepts fastballs thrown by a baseball pitching machine (31.298 - 40.23 M/S)
These fastballs were potent enough to dent a wall so it would be reasonable to assume they were put at the max setting
Demetri Alexopoulos kicks Eli Moskowitz through a trophy case (31.669 Kilojoules)
Kyler Park headbutts through concrete slabs (16 - 45.9 Kilojoules)
Tory Nichols smashes through solid stone (44.88 - 56 Kilojoules)
Chris breaks through 5 concrete slabs (23.2 - 66.3 Kilojoules)
Various Sensei
Somebody gotta stop these Uncs from beefing because they are getting too old. Daniel has fought many Karate sensei or students who became sensei later in life. He also can scale to most sensei through going even with Johnny Lawrence who has pretty much fought everyone being real.
Mike Barnes throws Daniel through Shoji screens and a display case
Was a tenth degree black belt during his first appearance in Karate Kid 3
Pulverizes the mid section of some bricks (4.9 - 6.19 Kilojoules)
Is fine after getting kicked into a wooden table and it breaks
Chozen Toguchi destroys part of a statue (4.68 Kilojoules)
Is known as Sato’s best student in a dojo composed of only black belt karate practitioners
Effortlessly defeats multiple of these black belt karate students at once
John Kreese can shatter car windows in a single punch (5.5 - 23 Kilojoules)
Terry Silver destroys 2x4s the same way Daniel does (5.6 Kilojoules)
Kicks Johnny so hard he breaks a long wood board (2.23 Kilojoules)
Survives being slammed into a mirror (8.7 - 36.56 Kilojoules)
Johnny Lawrence kicks a surfboard in half
Won the Under 18 All-Valley Karate Championship two years in a row
Stated as being the best fighter in the history of Cobra Kai
Survives being kicked into a mirror and it shatters (10.234 Kilojoules)
He then breaks through 2 cinder blocks at the sametime (34.17 - 92.4 Kilojoules)
Kicks Mike into a wooden table, breaking it (124.44 Kilojoules)
Both Chozen and Johnny defeated a group of highly skilled senseis while drunk and won
Mr. Miyagi (Debatable)
It may be hard to think Daniel can match his amazing master but it's not the hardest to believe. While Miyagi is almost certainly more skilled than even older Daniel, he was incredibly old and it was never the point for him to be physically superior to his foes like John Kreese. Not to say Miyagi isn't strong, but it isn't impossible to believe Daniel can match his physical stats. At the minimum Daniel was able to catch a fly with chopsticks, something Miyagi was struggling to do meaning he should at least match Miyagi in speed.
Weaknesses
Rocky
Rocky may be one of the greatest boxers in the world, but he's far from the ultimate warrior. In battle, he has a tendency to kind of just…let his opponents hit him, or rather he just doesn't dodge as much as he should. This has granted him several lifelong injuries that have lessened his talents, an proven quite painful in the long run. In this same vein, whenever he lacks the passion to really win the fight, his training slacks up and he's been known to lose to opponents like Clubber Lang as a result. The constant losses of his family have also lent him a fair amount of psychological trauma as well.
Daniel
Daniel may be incredibly well trained but he isn't perfect. He can be emotional during fights and making decisions. This can cloud his judgment and make it easier to fight as Daniel wages a mental war in his head. This also ruins Daniel’s abilities to perform Miyagi-Do techniques like the Crane Kick. An issue with Miyagi-Do overall is within its style. While being defensive can be very beneficial it also means every move is a counter move which can be predictable. Even Daniel's best technique, the secret Miyagi-Do pressure points can be countered. While this technique is incredible it is not foolproof and can be countered before all three pressure points are hit. Something done by Johnny Lawrence of all people.
However, Daniel's biggest weakness will always be his fear. He has been scared of people like Mike Barnes which made it impossible for Daniel to fight properly in his tournament match against him. Daniel also has fears for his family and his safety the moment Cobra Kai is brought back. While these are obviously not going to happen in a normal fight with no in-verse setup it's still a massive flaw of Daniel's that without Mr. Miyagi can get to him.
Before We Decide
Rambo Scaling?!?
Rambo scaling is an odd one to talk about. While these two have never interacted with each other before, the director and actor of both of their series, Sylvester Stallone, made a Word of God article detailing how it would go, and bounced off several times on who he thinks wins, clearly thinking that it’ll be a close bout. This led to the argument that Rocky could potentially scale to Rambo’s feats and what he performed in his respective series. However, despite Sylvester’s word as the creator and actor of both series, this scaling doesn’t hold up realistically for a fair amount of reasons.
For starters, what Stallone said only really applies to boxing and not an actual fight, where Rambo would very obviously have the advantage overall. He would only be in a fair fight if it was boxing in the first place, as in any other scenario Rambo would have a very clear advantage overall. It’s a lot to presume on especially when his default response was Rambo winning anyways. There’s also just the general shakiness of WoG as a whole.
An example that is a fair bit less controversial is Shovel Knight tangling with Kratos, the God of War. Both companies officially stated this crossover was canon on social media or reviews several times over, as well as developers of the games and that sort clarifying it is canon. These two in comparison have never met each other. Stallone’s word is valid, of course, but in the context of a VS fight, relying on WoG as a whole is very wonky overall and could lead to some frankly absurd scaling to other continuities that should not be applied seriously at all. However, it's not entirely unusable. In the event you use non-canon media for Daniel through something like the Karate Kid cartoon, this the becomes applicable anyway.
TLDR: its unusable in most circumstances and pretty irrelevant for a canon material only duel here.
Ivan Drago Punching Speed
Using the Kinetic Energy behind Ivan Drago’s punches, they can be found to be moving ludicrously fast. Our blog members have some conflicting views on this, so we will simply separate this segment into arguments for and against it.
Pro-Punch Scaling
Ivan Drago is a man and self-made monster of a boxer, with some of the most impressive strength and skill in Rocky as a whole. However, this can also apply to his speed as well. Essentially, Drago’s punching power was determined by a Machine that calculates force/impact via KE, and given Rocky is still a pretty realistic world (even real boxers like Mike Tyson have shown up) we can apply this to Drago. Drago is stated to weigh 261 lbs or about 118 kilograms, making half his body weight roughly 59 kilograms. In order for him to punch with the force he does, we just broke down the math needed for the speed to get what Drago got, which was around 45 to 85 meters per second. This is also kind of a lowball through using just half his body weight, as the scene his punches came from were simple punches in training. This means he was only really putting roughly his arm strength, plus some upper body strength into the punch. When he fought Rocky, Ivan was obviously using much more of his body strength in a far more serious situation, and thus it's likely he was hitting even faster.
As for scaling Rocky to this via this method, we do think it makes sense. While Rocky is far from the most accurate martial arts film (to be fair how many of them are actually accurate) it still is fairly rooted in reality. Injuries and getting tired in the films are treated rather seriously, as are things like aging, lasting health issues, and strategies against other boxers. It’s not that much of a stretch to grant Drago these speeds, especially when we take other factors in consideration, Drago is very consistently noted as one of the strongest boxers in the series, and is leagues beyond other boxers, also having killed one of the best in the ring in the form of Apollo Creed. These examples are important because the fastest boxing punch ever recorded is about 20 meters per second, and Apollo could strike other fighters twice before they could see what was happening, which lands a solid 25 meters a second. Drago being beyond either of these, which is stated and shown throughout the series, would support his being faster than both, and capable of the speed shown in the calculation. When comparing the numbers, Drago would be 1.7918 times faster than Apollo, which is certainly believable when taking their fight into account.
Ultimately, due to how Rocky is rooted in realistic fighting at its core, Drago’s conditions when performing the feat, and other speed examples in the series, we are fine with the scaling.
Anti-Punch Scaling
while the idea behind this speed is strong in theory, in practice scaling anything to the speed of these punches is flawed for these reasons
1: Crosses can be reacted to (Punches with the hand opposite the lead foot)
In the clip both a slight foot movement and clear movement in Drago’s hips can be seen, this is because in order to strike with such force the puncher needs to use any additional body weight they can and rotate the hips to increase the speed. While this makes the punch faster and stronger, it also makes them easier to react to. Additionally, in a fight, Drago's hand will have to move from a guard in order to actually throw that punch. There are motions that go into a cross separate from the actual punch itself that make reacting to them not exactly scaling to them
2: Minimal movements are needed in order to react to a punch.
When significant time is given to react to a move, it is hard to say that minor head and hand movements imply anyone is reacting to the full speed of the attack.
3: The Punch does not leave at its maximum velocity
The punch accelerates as the arm extends, this is why you cannot punch as hard with something like a one-inch punch is inherently weaker than a punch where the arm can fully extend.
Will Daniel Shank Rocky?
Daniel has access to quite a few weapons during his time, as you probably seen already. He has shown proficiency with a Bo Staff, has a set of Nunchucks in his house and taught his students how to use Sai for All-Valley competition. So where are these weapons?
Simple really…
OK but seriously these are just items that Daniel wouldn't use. For one, these items have never been seen outside of his house as the weapons used at the All-Valley were likely distributed by the tournament and not brought from the Miyagi-Do Dojo. So why would Daniel keep these on his person when going into a fight? In fact, whenever Daniel has left the house to fight someone like Terry Silver or to find Robby when he disappeared, Daniel did not bring any of these weapons.
You also came to this blog for a Martial Arts battle. Weapons never seen outside of Daniel's house being an important debate factor makes no sense.
So overall while these are weapons Daniel has, they are not standardly carried by Daniel and do not match how he fights most people in canon.
Mr. Miyagi Scaling
Despite all the glaze given to Mr. Miyagi, Daniel scaling to him isn't a simple yes or no. So let's see how Daniel measures up to his teacher.
Immediately Daniel probably shouldn't scale to Mr. Miyagi in strength. Mr. Miyagi is shown to be much physically stronger than Daniel in the movies with the way he throws around people Daniel has to put in a lot more to move. Miyagi has also been stated to be “Brawn” with the only one being close to his level of strength being Master Kim. Meaning there is no way Daniel should be allowed to scale to Miyagi in strength due to being below him in AP.
However, there is evidence to suggest he is able to match Miyagi's speed. For one he was able to block Miyagi's attacks off pure instinct when Miyagi was showing Daniel that the chores were teaching him Karate. But this is likely Miyagi going easy. No, the real evidence is when Miyagi and Daniel were both attempting to catch a fly out of the air and Daniel caught it before Miyagi could with his speed.
While Miyagi says “beginner's luck” that's clearly just Miyagi being. Despite how wise Miyagi is he isn't always super serious and loves to goof around so him making a remark like this while realizing his student has already begun to surpass his speed is in character.
“But don't other scenes show Miyagi is faster than people who can tag Daniel”. Kinda? See Miyagi in most fights is shown to be stronger than Daniel and much more skilled which stays consistent throughout his life. However, Miyagi dodging attacks can actually be shown to be skill based a lot of the time as he is great at anticipating his opponents. The biggest example being him dodging punches from John Kreese, not just through speed but anticipating and moving before Kreese's obvious attacks. This isn't saying Miyagi isnt fast, just that he clearly uses skill to aid his movement more than just dodging with speed alone.
“If Daniel was this fast, why doesn't he just beat everyone instantly?” This is a fair question but we believe we can answer it. We have already stated and shown that Miyagi is stronger and more skilled which would already explain half of why he can beat those Daniel can't. His age had made him stronger and more skilled allowing him to easily pick apart his opponents with skills Daniel does not have as a child. The other big point is that Daniel rarely gets a fair fight. When Johnny and his friends jumped Daniel before Miyagi saved him, Daniel didn't know Karate while Miyagi did. At the All-Valley Tournament Daniel had his leg injured before he fought Johnny which Johnny had targeted. In Karate Kid 3 Daniel goes against Mike Barnes who he actually dodges quite often but continues to struggle against due to his fear of Barnes. While you could point to Daniel not being able to beat Sliver, Kreese and Barnes when he was quitting Cobra Kai while Miyagi could, this can easily be explained. During this time Daniel was tired and had no intention of fighting. It was late at night and Daniel was attempting to tell Terry Silver he quit Cobra Kai. Terry Silver then brought out John Kreese and Mike Barnes, scaring Daniel and putting him in a situation where he was fighting two adults and Barnes which would be an impossible task for a kid Daniel to fight physically. Miyagi however, being stronger and more skilled would be able to take them on as he has no fear of them and has the physical strength to keep up with them in strength. This fight has nothing to do with speed and would not matter for scaling Miyagi's speed and Daniel’s.
The only fair fight Daniel really gets is Chozen in Karate Kid 2, which he beats with no help and it is not someone Miyagi has fought, meaning it's hard to predict how it would affect the speed scaling.
The scenes with Miyagi beating Daniel's opponents also have a lot more thematic meaning behind them than the fly scene. The fly scene shows Daniel’s rapid improvement and him being already able to match Miyagi's speed. Meanwhile the Karate Kid 3 jumping scene is more about Miyagi showing Daniel that Miyagi-Do will always beat the morally wrong Cobra Kai and that Miyagi forgives Daniel despite his turn to Cobra Kai. These scenes with Miyagi fighting just have much more thematic impact that has no bearing on the scaling unlike the fly scene which has much less interpretation.
So overall, while Daniel cannot match Miyagi's strength or skill, it would be reasonable to scale Daniel to Miyagi's speed.
Verdicts
Team Rocky
Stats
Despite these two being realistic characters (for the most part) they have a variety of impressive stat angles to pull from. Let's start with Rocky.
Rocky is without a doubt the top dog of his own verse, which is a pretty crazy thing to note. On his own feats, he punches and breaks cow ribs for training; both examples being out of his prime and peak training (Rocky 1 and Rocky 6/Balboa), and getting around 22 Kilojoules. His greatest comparisons though are the foes he fights, like the late and great Apollo Creed. The Master of Disaster is not only fast enough to punch boxers twice before they can react (25 meters a second) but also tough enough to tank repeated blows from Ivan Drago before ultimately succumbing. In his then journey to avenge Apollo, Rocky underwent his hardest training yet, and ultimately managed to overcome his monster of a foe.
Drago is on an entirely different level than practically everybody in the series, and has been stated to be a super warrior “1,000 years into the future”, which is really saying something when even average boxers in Rocky can hit with 700 PSI (22-58 Kilojoules) and the fastest boxing punch ever recorded was around 20 meters per second. Drago himself has hit with 1,850 - 2,150 PSI while training and undergoing repeated steroid boosts, which places his casual punches around 50 to 60 kilojoules on the lower ends, to 155 and 180 on the higher ends. It should also be noted that due to how punching works, you could apply higher speeds to Drago at 44-88 meters per second. Rocky obviously surpassed him in their fight, and his endurance is so through the roof that he took all of Drago's punches and more to the point where Ivan himself was convinced Rocky was not human. These blows were also in the context of a battle, where Drago was putting a lot more of his body weight and his strength as opposed to tests during a lab, meaning Rocky would further these values.
Now let's move on to Daniel. The original Karate Kid is one of the most skilled fighters in his world, and obviously upscales from other feats the Cobra Kai students pull off. Kyler, Chris, and Demetri all have dozens to several dozen kilojoule level feats, and Tory's own strength even measures up to 44-56 Kilojoules in her punches. This does make sense, as Daniel has matched Johnny Lawrence blow for blow in all of their recent battles. Johnny has broken cinder blocks with 34 kilojoules worth, smashed wooden signs with 42 Kilojoules, and even kicked a man through a table with 124 Kilojoules. As for speed, Daniel is pretty solidly above the average black belt, who can strike with around 14 meters a second speed, and he himself has blocked tennis balls, clocking in at around 30 to 40 meters a second. You could even debatably scale him to Mr. Miyagi, whose arrow catches gets from 44 to 126 meters per second.
As we compare them, it should be somewhat clear who holds their edges. While the Karate Kid cast is fairly impressive, Rocky's battles and scaling simply outmatch them at far more consistent angles. For example, Daniel can upscale from younger characters like Demetri and Kyler who can strike with a few dozen Kilojoules right? Well, even average boxers in Rocky can strike with that much force as well. Even higher feats like Tory and Johnny breaking their respective objects are matched and outmuscled by Ivan Drago, who's punches get 50-60 kilojoules at bare minimum. Even if you were to argue Johnny’s table smash would put him ahead, higher ends of Drago's punches get similar levels, and it's important to note that these punching levels from Drago were in tests before various steroid boosts and more training, as opposed to trying his hardest to beat the ever-loving shit out of Rocky like he was in the ring. It's highly unlikely Daniel would hold any semblance of a strength advantage, and it's far more likely Rocky is simply stronger.
Moving on to speed, Daniel does look a bit better here. His examples of blocking pitched balls get 30-40 meters per second, and he could debatably scale to Mr. Miyagi, who has caught arrows which get 40-126 meters per second. Rocky in comparison has surpassed Apollo, who can punch foes at 25 Meters per second, and Drago can potentially punch with 40-80 meters per second speeds, which Rocky would scale. Comparing them, it's likely Daniel has the speed advantage, but not by so much that it would matter much. When comparing upscaling levels, the average black belt in karate can strike at 14 meters per second, but Drago is a super warrior leagues above other boxers, making him far above 20 meters per second attack speed, as well as Apollo's own 25 meters per second value. Daniel's pitching examples may sound a bit superior on paper, but they don't really mean much in a battle like this.
See, reacting at these speeds is fairly impressive, but it's not something people in real life can't accomplish. Baseball players consistently react to the speeds listed and beyond, and there are several pitches in question which exceed this that people can react to. Even from a vs standpoint, it's hard to grant Daniel an actual edge from this given the context of both their scaling. While the object in question Daniel is reacting to is “faster” it's from an object a distance away that he can see coming and react accurately because he knows where that's going to be. Rocky’s examples are him having to dodge up close and personal where he needs to react in time to avoid getting hit, which is inherently a better basis for combat reaction. Even if you tried taking the higher ends like scaling to Miyagi, we would then take higher ends of Drago's punch speed which would still have the speed difference only slightly in Daniel's favor. TLDR; speed would likely not matter that much, or Daniel would be slightly faster, but not enough to actually change things in any major way.
The real problem for Daniel right here is endurance and durability. Fights in Karate Kid and Cobra Kai last for a few minutes in real time at most, where injuries in any metric are incredibly dangerous. Daniel himself has showcased this, and increasingly gotten less impressive over longer and drawn out battles, like Chozen or Mike Barnes. Now, let's look at Rocky, who is the living embodiment of endurance. He's consistently touched out all his opponents can dish for multiple minutes at a time, across over 10 rounds, even in the case of Ivan Drago. To put this in perspective, he is essentially taking the previously established strength values to his head and body repeatedly across extended periods of time and still trucking on, whereas Daniel getting injured is a major problem in any of his battles. More than that, he has shown nowhere near the durability to survive the consistent shots to his body and head that Rocky can dish out, and even if he could, he is far more likely to give out quicker in an extended brawl than Rocky.
To sum things up, strength is similar or in Rocky’s favor, speed is similar or in Daniel’s favor, and durability is obviously in Rocky’s favor.
Techniques
Moving on to their techniques, both have a decent variety to pull from. While this does tie into skill (we'll talk more later), both have pretty standard applications of their martial art here. Rocky has the various boxing styles like slugger and southpaw, while Daniel has the kicks and mindset from Miyagi-Do and Cobra Kai. This includes various ways to improve their defense, offense, and speed, such as Rocky's Apollo Style or Daniel's Kata, with both roughly evening out in usage and no specific edge granted there. Daniel’s techniques relating to Cobra Kai are particularly useful, as are his pressure points. Basically, Daniel's potentially using the infamous “sweep the leg” to knock Rocky off his feet, as well as his using kicks in general, are rather useful compared to Rocky's more restricted style in boxing. His pressure points are also fantastic weapons, as they can disable Rocky's limbs for short periods of time, which is a major edge in a martial arts battle. However, Rocky can reliably get around both of these problems.
First, in relation to Daniel kicking while Rocky is a boxer, this is ultimately not that much of a problem as it may seem. While Rocky may not be able to kick or anything inside traditional boxing, he's still fought various other examples of fighting and martial arts in his career with similar ways to break the rules he's used to, such as the wrestler Thunderlips in Rocky 3. Assuming you take this fight to the street, it gets even worse for Daniel, as Rocky while fighting outside boxing rules drops all formalities and implies equally useful tactics, such as tripping people or locking them in place for gut punches. Couple those factors with his already mentioned experience fighting other martial artists with an edge he doesn't have, and they ultimately won't mean as much.
The pressure points, while seriously impressive, are also able to be countered by Rocky. In Cobra Kai, since Johnny Lawrence had them used on himself as well, and after the brief stun phase, he simply powered through it and got back to fighting. Powering through pain and breaking limitations is kind of Rocky's whole thing, and there's no reason he wouldn't be able to do the same here, especially given his higher durability overall is more than impressive enough to survive anything Daniel could pull while he is vulnerable.
Essentially, Daniel holds the edge in techniques, but Rocky has equivalents or counters to his more useful tricks.
Tertiary Factors
Now we arrive at perhaps the most important aspect of the battle: Experience and Skill. This will roughly cover all of their martial arts edges, overall experience, who has better advantages where, and etc.
Starting off with their martial arts and styles in general, Rocky's knowledge in boxing is completely ludicrous. He's mastered a variety of different ways to box, like his classic Southpaw Style, Apollo-Style, Boxer-Puncher, and Slugger. With Apollo-Style, he dances around the ring while keeping his distance, getting reads on his opponents attacks as he peppers them with fast and powerful strikes. Slugger style lets Rocky take advantage of his cast iron jaw to bulldoze through his opponents defenses, getting right up in their grill to corner them and prevent running away or any fancy footwork. Boxer-Puncher allows him to mesh all of this together in a blend of styles as he adapts to his opponents tricks and works on their weaknesses. He's also employed rather unorthodox styles of fighting when not held back by the rules, like using choke holds, body holds to punch vulnerable areas like the back, and tripping his opponents/sweeping their pegs out from underneath them.
Across his many examples of fighting others, Rocky has fought virtually every kind of boxer imaginable, adapted to all their strategies, and even fought in various duels outside traditional boxing, like his duel against the wrestler Thunderlips and street fight vs Tommy Gunn. This includes matching skill with Apollo Creed, the then “most dangerous fighter in the world” and Ivan Drago, a perfect mix of brain and brain in a highly evolved warrior trained to perfection.
Moving on to Daniel, he's also a legendary warrior in his martial art. Across his Karate Kareer, Daniel has learned the ins and outs of Miyagi-Do Karate, which includes plenty of footwork and countering the opponent through various blocks and the like. More impressive techniques include Kata to calm his mind, the Drum Technique to attack and defend at the same time, and the legendary Crane Kick. He's also used dirtier and more offensive tricks in Cobra Kai's Quick Silver, and if you lean into it enough, could justify his using things like leg sweeps or various dishonorable but effective tactics to subdue an opponent. He's fought various martial arts with years and years of training, including a war veteran in John Kreese and other fighters trained in martial arts like Taekwondo such as Terry Silver.
Comparing these two to each other, it's fairly obvious Rocky prevails in pure martial art versatility. Not only has he mastered more styles and accessed a wider versatility of his martial art, but his skill comparisons simply blow Daniel out of the water. While LaRusso has fought foes with decades of training at points and even former war veterans, none of them have statements or feats anywhere close to being dubbed the most dangerous fighter in the world like Apollo Creed. Even worse is Ivan Drago, who has perfected the art of boxing and is, yet again, a warrior a millenia ahead of his time. Nobody in Karate Kid even comes close to that kind of mastery. This ties into another edge Rocky has: experience.
While Daniel has had training for good portions of his life and fought others with even more years under their belts, Rocky has done the same to fighters with much more active training and years spent fighting consecutively. He's also fought a wider variety of foes and has plenty of experience adapting to his opponents moves as well as other martial arts entirely, meaning he is more than capable of outclassing Daniel’s Karate. On the flipside, Daniel has pretty much no experience in duels against martial artists aside from karate, especially compared to Rocky's own track record.
When actually comparing their martial arts against each other, Rocky's various styles lend him plenty of counters to how Daniel operates. For example, Miyagi-Do is heavily based on counters and footwork right? Well, Rocky's slugger style is literally made to slam the opponent into a corner and cut off their footwork, letting him pound at Daniel’s waning defenses where he has no real move to breath. Rocky is also capable of keeping his distance while raining down attacks via Apollo-Style, and simply adapting to his moves in general while sifting through his styles to find viable counters through Boxer-Puncher style.
To round off their skill with a final nail in Daniel's coffin, boxing in general is consistently noted to be a more dangerous and useful martial art than point based karate. The entire goal of boxing is to hurt the opponent until they can not continue, while karate relies on points and rules more than just a straightforward duel to the knockout. That certainly shows through how Rocky and Daniel fight in general, and that leads into another edge we touched on earlier: endurance. Daniel's various fights have nearly always operated based on points and rules, where his actual strength is less useful than his technique and quick thinking under stress. Rocky’s entire career has been in knockdown drag-out brawls where he fights until the opponent is down for the count, and as a result, his endurance under pain is simply legendary. Daniel getting injured is always a much more serious problem, simply because he doesn't have much experience or success in fights with the odds stacked against him. Unluckily for him, fighting with the odds stacked against him is how Rocky has always fought, and thus, he takes the edge in tertiary factors.
Conclusion
So to put it simply, Rocky is the fairly logical victor here. While his strength advantage is slight and Daniel’s speed advantage is slight, his durability and endurance are so through the roof that Daniel will always give out before he does. This never-say-die ability also lends him counters to Daniel's pressure points combat, and his various boxing styles can match and exceed the usefulness of Daniel's various techniques. Experience and skill in general heavily favor Rocky, and he has a far greater track record fighting against opponents of pure skill, or while under pain and stress. Nearly every battle relevant advantage that matters falls in his corner, and so, even though Daniel may have been one of the best around, the Italian Stallion was more than capable of taking him down.
The winner is Rocky Balboa, The Italian Stallion
Team Daniel
Stats
Since these are pretty much just two humans the stat gaps are not very large here. Daniel is reaching about 124.44 Kilojoules VS 216.67 Kilojoules. So a slight AP advantage for Rocky. However, where Rocky takes strength Daniel takes speed. We here on team Daniel do not buy Rocky scaling to the punch speed produced by Ivan Drago putting him at about 25 M/S. Meanwhile Daniel should scale to Mr. Miyagi in speed putting him at 126 M/S. So even if Rocky was given higher end punching speed Daniel would still be faster. Not much else to really say on stats so we can move on.
Techniques
To not rehash everything said by Team Rocky we can make this pretty quick. Rocky has plenty of unique styles with various different ways to keep Rocky in the fight and even help deal with Miyagi-Do Karate. However, no matter how much training Rocky has done it doesn't save him against some of Miyagi-Do’s best moves such as the “unblockable” Crane Kick which would be helpful against Rocky who tends to run into enemy attacks sometimes. Or the Drum Technique which would allow Daniel to weave around Rocky's assaults which is only enhanced by his higher speed. However, none of these compare to Daniel's pressure points technique which would allow him to debilitate and defeat Rocky as the strength gap isn't enough to save him from about 10 seconds of free hits from Daniel. Again, Daniel's speed and surprise factor also help him out alot when trying to pull this move on Rocky who, due to being slower can't just move past it like Johnny Lawrence. Daniel's karate has also trained him in using legs and grapples than Rocky’s limited knowledge from street fighting. Daniel himself can also switch styles to that of the aggressive Cobra Kai if he needs to or his modified Quick Silver which could keep Rocky on his toes as Daniel uses both defense and offense.
Tertiary
In this category we do have to give our props to Rocky. He does likely have better endurance, a better martial art and even more experience/skill. Yet these aren't areas Daniel is completely out of his depth in. He can train under the hottest and coldest climates to show his endurance, use the unique aspects of Miyagi-Do to get past regular karate’s shortcomings and Daniel is used to fighting skilled opponents such as war veterans who are karate masters capable of training students to go to the Sekai Taikai. So while Rocky takes the edge here Daniel can definitely keep up.
Conclusion
Overall this matchup is extremely close. The speed and strength gaps just aren't big enough for either fighter to win on them alone (though the speed gap is bigger than the strength gap). So this match comes down to techniques and tertiaries. While Rocky has some great tertiary factors Daniel can still keep up in this regard while Rocky doesn't have much he can do against pressure points. These pressure points will lock down Rocky and give Daniel more than enough time to deliver the final blow. Rocky had the eye of the tiger, but the Karate Kid is the best around. The winner is Daniel LaRusso.
Advantages and Disadvantages
Rocky
“You know I couldn't have done nothing without you... Yo Adrian we did it…we did it.”
Advantages:
Stronger and more durable
More experienced
Is FAR more used to long fights and high endurance matches
Boxing and style changing counters karate
Mixes offense and defense far better
More experienced and has fought mote skilled opponents
Can likely resist the pressure points thanks to his endurance
Sylvester Stallone
Disadvantages:
Slower
Daniel's pressure points are a very powerful tool
Can’t kick people in the balls
Rocky V
Both Mentors and Wife are dead (rip)
Daniel
“If you have hate in your heart, then you have already lost.”
Advantages:
Faster
Pressure Points could potentially lead to a quick win
Incredibly good defense
Cobra Kai is the silliest show known to man.
Disadvantages:
Weaker
Will not lead with offense
Less experienced
Boxing and Rocky’s styles can counter his karate
Cobra Kai is the silliest show known to man.
Votes
Team Rocky Balboa [9]: (Tru, Z1, Round 1 Fight, Iceking, Fiction, Saul, Seba, Toppat Torchwick, Coach Boomer)
Team Daniel LaRusso [4]: (TripleCx3, MomoUra, Cryotechnics, DrHippoTime)
Thank You
Usually this says Next Time but the next time has already been announced. Arkham Batman VS Insomniac was planned to be the next blog after Korra VS Delsin but I decided to start this one as I was feeling much more passionate and it was gonna be much quicker. Had a lot of fun and I hope you, the reader, did as well. Thank you for reading this, your support means so much to me and the rest of the team. A big thanks to Fenic.V for the Rocky and Daniel preview images and Torchwick for similar reasons and general blog help. Another massive thanks to Z1 for allowing us to use info from their Rocky doc and Karate Kid as it was incredibly well done there and deserved to be shown off here. Also thank you to Round 1 and Triple for putting in a lot of debate and information as well along with the rest of the team for all doing all sorts of stuff.
This was a huge passion project and I can't wait to see you all with Batman and Spider-Man.
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